- Josh Adams
- Charles Max Wood
- Mark Ericksen
Special Guest: Devon Estes
In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks with Devon Estes who is a software developer who uses Elixir. He currently resides in Berlin, Germany and has been working there for the past four years. The panelists and the guest talk about Elixir, testing, and much more! Check it out!
1:26 – Devon: I am American but live in Berlin, Germany for about 4 years now. I was a freelancer, but now I am at a “real” job now where I am a software developer using Elixir.
1:50 – Chuck: Cool!
2:05 – Guest: Something to always talk about testing – it’s evergreen!
2:15 – Chuck: What are the benefits you get from testing and what is your approach?
2:24 – The guest answers the question.
3:53 – Panelist chimes in.
4:18 – Panel: I like playing around and I know when something is terrible. I have to poke around to figure out if I like it or not. I am an exploratory developer. I write a test and it looks great at first but the implementation is terrible or something.
5:54 – Mark comments on developers and how they interact with their code.
7:15 – Mark: How do you approach that? I heard you talking about tests, spikes and other things.
7:22 – Guest: If it is something that is small I will write the test first. If it’s larger I will usually do 2-3 spikes to figure out what is going on.
The guest continues with this topic.
8:54 – Panel: I found that over the years I couldn’t do that.
9:21 – Guest: With the topic of testing in Elixir I have these “rules” but I break them all the time. Sometimes you get better, cleaner tests out of it if you were to break the rule(s.). Tests are only there for 90% of the time, in my own opinion. Sometimes you have to play around to see what’s going on.
10:36 – Panel: I agree a lot, especially with integrations.
10:49 – Guest.
12:18 – Panel: You have these guidelines or rules and you know when to break those rules. You talked about these specific rules and I thought it was interesting. I was reading through these and I have the same rules but you codified them with examples. Can you walk us through your guidelines?
13:00 – Guest: To be super clear I am talking about unit tests. When I think of testing there is this testing pyramid.
13:52 – Panel.
14:57 – Guest: Like I said, these rules are meant to be broken, if appropriate.
16:39 – Guest continues with unit testing and other types of testing. He talks about easier to more difficult kinds of tests.
17:42 – Guest (continues): Sometimes the tests are accurately true, and sometimes not. It can be easy to get into those traps. Hopefully they will tell you what is expected.
18:25 – Panel: In Ruby, there is a test that would modify your code and remove stuff? Was it Mutant? Mutant testing.
19:03 – Guest answers the question.
19:38 – Guest: I don’t know if Elixir has anything like that, yet, but it would be pretty cool. It would be a good idea for someone to take on!
20:00 – Chuck: I have had conversations with a colleague – they both pushed back and talked more about Cypress.io and integrated tests.
21:04 – Chuck: I think it’s interesting to see the different approaches!
21:14 – Guest: We are lucky to have great tooling in Elixir!!
The guest mentions Wallaby.js!
24:39 – The guest talks about unit levels. Check it out here!
26:35 – Panel.
26:48 – Chuck: How does it affect my workflow? I like end-to-end tests. The efficiency, if it’s repeating stuff – I don’t care – as long as it’s fast enough. If it ruins my workflow then it’s a problem.
27:22 – Panel.
28:12 – The topic “test coverage” is mentioned by Chuck.
28:25 – Panel.
29:02 – FreshBooks!
30:10 – Guest talks about Wallaby.js.
32:24 – Panel: We’ve had you on before, and the idea is that you are all into Elixir and its path. (EMx 018 – Episode with Devon Estes)
32:57 – Guest: I think testing in Elixir is simpler.
34:04 – Panel.
34:07 – Guest: You have commands and you have queries.
The guest gives a hypothetical example! The guest also mentions GenServers, too.
35:42 – Guest: There are two ways that you can interact with the process: command & queries.
37:00 – Guest talks about different libraries such as: MoX.
37:41 – Panel: Any tips on testing the servers; just any GenServer?
38:25 – Panelist shares his approach with this.
39:54 – Guest: I don’t test name servers b/c they are by definition global state.
The guest goes into great detail about testing – check it out!
46:29 – Panel.
47:01 – Guest: I kind of hate the term dependency interjection in the functional context.
47:17 – Panel: I think it’s helpful, because…
47:28 – Guest.
47:49 – Panelists go back-and-forth!
48:20 – Panel: Sending a message to the testing process – this was something that was stated by Devon earlier. I find this really helpful.
49:00 – Chuck: Picks!
49:05 – Ad: Lootcrate.com
END – CacheFly!
- Visual Studio Code
- Mutation Testing – GitHub
- MRS 003 – Episode with Devon Estes
- RR 295 – Episode with Devon Estes
- RR 330 – Episode with Devon Estes
- EMx 018 – Episode with Devon Estes
- Devon’s GitHub
- Devon’s Twitter
- Get Alias
- Blog – Mox
- Slide Deck by Josh
- Extreme Ownership
- Sit down with your team
- Discord server for DevChat
- Recommendation Page for Elixir