The Freelancers’ Show 075 – SEO with Mike Brooks and Stephen Gardner

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Panel Mike Brooks (twitter linkedin) Stephen Gardner (twitter linkedin blog) Reuven Lerner (twitter github blog) Jim Gay (twitter github blog) Eric Davis (twitter github blog) Charles Max Wood (twitter github Teach Me To Code Rails Ramp Up) Discussion 01:27 - Mike Brooks Introduction Nuclear Chowder Nuclear Chowder Podcast 03:57 - Mike Gardner Introduction 05:38 - Marketing for SEO Quality Content Syndication Calls to Action Giveaways 12:30 - Targeting Keywords SECockpit SpyFu Google AdWords: Keyword Tool HitTail LinkedIn Social Media Examiner 18:40 - Getting to #1 Right Message Right Media Right Market 26:00 - Putting Keywords in the Right Place 29:35 - JavaScript and SEO 30:45 - Google vs Bing vs Yahoo 34:11 - Webmaster Tools Google Webmaster Tools Bing Webmaster Tools 35:46 - Optimizing for Local Search 41:37 - “Be Everywhere” Marketing Picks HitTail (Eric) Continuum (Reuven) swissmiss (Jim) Design*Sponge (Jim) LessAccounting (Chuck) Web Presence Optimizer (Steven) Book Club Book Yourself Solid with Michael Port! He will join us for an episode to discuss the book on September 24th. The episode will air on October 3rd. Next Week Writing Books Transcript [Hosting and bandwidth provided by the Blue Box Group. Check them out at][you're fantastic at code, but do you have an action plan to take it to the next level? the upcoming book, next level freelance, will help you optimize your freelance business for happiness. the book is packed with actionable steps to make more money, case studies, tips to find more clients, and exercises for you to establish your desired lifestyle. extras include: 9 interviews with freelancers who make great money while enjoying great work-life balance, videos on strategies to find quality subcontractors, and videos on making more free time by outsourcing your daily tasks. check it out today at!] CHUCK: Hey everybody and welcome to Episode 75 of The Freelancers' Show! This week on our panel, we have Eric Davis. ERIC: Hello! CHUCK: Jim Gay. JIM: Howdy! CHUCK: Reuven Lerner. REUVEN: Hello there! CHUCK: I’m Charles Max Wood from We have 2 special guests this week, Mike Brooks. MIKE: Hi everybody! CHUCK: And Steven Gardner. STEVEN: Good afternoon! CHUCK: I know Mike; he’s in my Mastermind Group. So we talk a couple of times a month, we’ve talked outside of the group a little bit about different things. And I’ve heard Steven on Mike’s show, The Nuclear Chowder Marketing Show. I’m going to give you guys the chance here to introduce yourselves, and then we’ll get into the show. Mike, why don’t you go first? MIKE: Sure! As you said, I met you through the Mastermind Group, and it’s been a real pleasure getting to know you and hearing what you do, Chuck. You really, really got a great handle on what it is you’ve been doing and it’s been more pleasure to learn something [inaudible]. My company is an internet marketing company. We do Web Design, Search Engine Optimization, and Social Media that’s why I can kind of explain it and sum it all up; we’ve got the combination of such even flow, introduce some stuff in a moment, myself and our Social Media Manager. It has some different elements, the company we have, so we’re not just an SEO company, we’re not just an internet marketing company, we’re not just a website company, we bring all those elements to it. One of us disagrees with something, the other is doing based on our expertise; we can make sure we’re giving the best solution for client so that not only where they found that we’re going to get conversion to our customers or prospective customers. That’s pretty much what my company does. Of course, I’ve got my own podcast, The Nuclear Chowder Online Marketing, small business podcast, not to mention. That’s one of my very favorite things to do.


[Hosting and bandwidth provided by the Blue Box Group. Check them out at] [You're fantastic at code, but do you have an action plan to take it to the next level? The upcoming book, Next Level Freelance, will help you optimize your freelance business for happiness. The book is packed with actionable steps to make more money, case studies, tips to find more clients, and exercises for you to establish your desired lifestyle. Extras include: 9 interviews with freelancers who make great money while enjoying great work-life balance, videos on strategies to find quality subcontractors, and videos on making more free time by outsourcing your daily tasks. Check it out today at!] CHUCK: Hey everybody and welcome to Episode 75 of The Freelancers' Show! This week on our panel, we have Eric Davis. ERIC: Hello! CHUCK: Jim Gay. JIM: Howdy! CHUCK: Reuven Lerner. REUVEN: Hello there! CHUCK: I’m Charles Max Wood from We have 2 special guests this week, Mike Brooks. MIKE: Hi everybody! CHUCK: And Steven Gardner. STEVEN: Good afternoon! CHUCK: I know Mike; he’s in my Mastermind Group. So we talk a couple of times a month, we’ve talked outside of the group a little bit about different things. And I’ve heard Steven on Mike’s show, The Nuclear Chowder Marketing Show. I’m going to give you guys the chance here to introduce yourselves, and then we’ll get into the show. Mike, why don’t you go first? MIKE: Sure! As you said, I met you through the Mastermind Group, and it’s been a real pleasure getting to know you and hearing what you do, Chuck. You really, really got a great handle on what it is you’ve been doing and it’s been more pleasure to learn something [inaudible]. My company is an internet marketing company. We do Web Design, Search Engine Optimization, and Social Media that’s why I can kind of explain it and sum it all up; we’ve got the combination of such even flow, introduce some stuff in a moment, myself and our Social Media Manager. It has some different elements, the company we have, so we’re not just an SEO company, we’re not just an internet marketing company, we’re not just a website company, we bring all those elements to it. One of us disagrees with something, the other is doing based on our expertise; we can make sure we’re giving the best solution for client so that not only where they found that we’re going to get conversion to our customers or prospective customers. That’s pretty much what my company does. Of course, I’ve got my own podcast, The Nuclear Chowder Online Marketing, small business podcast, not to mention. That’s one of my very favorite things to do. CHUCK: Awesome. And I have say listening to your show, you really do get a feel that you care about the small businesses, you care about the people listening to the show, and it just really shows. And your advice is usually just dead on of what I need; it’s kind of funny. You must be following more closely than just in the Mastermind Group or something, but – MIKE: Well, I appreciate that, Chuck. You just recently give me some really amazing feedback, which blew me away. It made my ear, man. I came from a business background where I own my own small business; I own a Martial Arts school before I got into the internet marketing thing. So I know what it’s like to be like almost not able to pay the rent. I know what it’s like to struggle. I have an affinity for those kinds of business. I love working with [inaudible], it’s exciting to work with any of these guys because I really have a special place for those one-person operation; it’s that for struggling. CHUCK: Yup, definitely. And like I said, it definitely shows. Let’s give Steven an opportunity to introduce himself real quick. STEVEN: Yeah, thanks! My name is Steven Gardner; I work with Mike as his SEO Manager. I’ve been working with the internet marketing and search engine field for almost 15 years now; has evolved over the .com era and ecommerce era, and now into the new informational world. I’m the guy that fits in the back room and is working on all the technical stuff – keywords and keyword densities, logistics and analytics, and all that fun stuff that nobody cares about but everybody wants. And pretty much, I’m the guy in the backroom that’s doing the technical stuff, stay out of the way most of the time. MIKE: What I tell people, Chuck, is he’s the branch and I’m the tree. CHUCK: [Laughs] It sounds like he’s the master of the black art. STEVEN: [Laughs] MIKE: [Laughs] Yeah. I brought Steven on a couple of years ago. Now, he’s one of the best institutions I’ve ever made. This guy was doing all the SEO and myself, and Steven just eats, scripts, breaths it, does it the right way. He’s not doing any of the dirty tricks that gets you into trouble these days. He’s phenomenal. He comes on my show every now and then and does our SEO moment where he talks about what’s going on and much going on [chuckles]. STEVEN: Yeah, we’re happy to be here and answer questions or do whatever we can. CHUCK: Awesome. Real quick, I want to explain to the listeners, you might hear a little bit of audio quality issues. Half of the people on this call are on their phones. Skype just didn’t want to cooperate today, so that’s what we’re doing. If it bothers you, I apologize. Anyway, let’s get in and talk about this for a minute. One thing that I really am starting to do is kind of build up a little bit more of a consultancy; I want to get a few more subcontractors under me. That means I need to find more work. And it seems like one of the best ways to do that is to get my company’s website up toward the top of Google, or Bing, or whatever. I’m wondering, what are kind of the top one or two things that I can do with my website to get it there? MIKE: I’ll start from the marketing point; I’d turn it over to Steven for the SEO. This is without seeing, without having your site in front of me, of course, I’m driving right now [chuckles]. CHUCK: That’s okay, I haven’t built it yet. MIKE: Oh, perfect! Well, that’s easy. I’m going speak and answer the technical stuff. What I want to see in a site for client is, I want to see a strong marketing, and I want to see really good content with a marketing strategy behind, so not just content for content’s sake. You’re already doing that, Chuck. You’re creating a podcast – are you creating a weekly podcast? Or, is it daily? What’s your frequency? CHUCK: I have 4 shows, and they’re all weekly. MIKE: Okay. So you have 4 different shows, and you’re creating a ton of content. As long as you’re creating a weekly with that audio content, it’s going to be great. But I will also [unclear] separate weekly content and I will probably put some blog; blogging that when you’re not putting up your audio, you might put a weekly blog out there. The more content you create and the more quality that content is, the better off you’re going to be. And Steven, again, can get into our technical stuff, but who will want to see new, regular, fresh content that in the [unclear]; they really understand context out so it’s no longer can you put out just purely keyword optimized content. It’s got to be account, which means keywords, and what the reader wants, and just the better at – I can’t stress out enough – better the content is, so much so that you’re getting picked up on social media. So you have a Social Media strategy in there where you’re syndicating the stuff out, but also getting other people to syndicate it for you. And the only way to do that is to participate and feel the relationships on social media like me and you – we’re both podcasters. If that’d be something you do, I’m going to squid it; I’ll put it on Facebook to sell on my audience to see what you’re doing because I know your content, I know what you’re like, I know what type of person you are, so I would want to share that content. I want to see that, but also, I want to see strong call-to-action, good headline, good marketing message, and good recapture. One of the ways I see a lot of people make mistake is not having clean chapter on their site. Some kind of system like lever or you can contact at the very minimum so that the visitor can be brought into that prospecting sales call. To go along with that, I would want to see some kind of really strong, free give away to incentivize for [unclear] that come to your site and enter that email or traps. I’ll kind of turn it over to Steven and build upon [unclear] to explain the technical side of what I was talking about. STEVEN: Google, really, is content as king. That’s always been the case, but more and more so with the year’s past. They kind of told everybody 2013 is kind of back to the basics for SEO. The strategies that people have been using in the last few years, Google has really come down on. And rightfully so, there’s a lot of, I’ll call them “Black Hat but Gray Hat”, just contents or rationally links in backlinks structure, there are all those crazy things that people get into and the latest gimmick to try to rank your site, and it used to work! You used to be able to go out and really buy your way to the top of SEO. Google, in 2012 with Penguin and Panda even more so in 2013, have really come down on that and really going back to the basics of good quality, clean content, distributed well, make sure your site has the basics, make sure your tags are there, make sure your keyword density is reasonable, make sure you’re having calls-to-action to your audience, giving that user engagement, that social engagement that you’re on social media involved. The tricks of going out and just mass making links and mass broadcasting aren’t going to work anymore, but they’re going to get you penalized. So it’s a really different ballgame with what Google is looking at. But yeah, content and blog is by far a great way; people amazes me how many businesses are still on it (blogs) on their site. You don’t need to be a writer; there’s ways to get content out there. If you’re not an English major or you’re not someone that wants to sit down and write, there’s options for you. It’s not as hard as you think to point out short words of good quality content that could the users want. That’s really the most important thing right now. MIKE: Right. I have a suggestion that I usually give people. A lot of times, you’re not going to have a problem with the structure of your content creator, but a lot of business owners, they’re busy in their small business, working on it, and some of them are working 10, 11, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, they don’t have time to read content, and they get stressed; not that they don’t have a time, but it’s very hard and the concepts of it like, “Oh god, now I have another job. How am I even going to do this?” it gets very, very difficult. When I talk to people, it does way to get your arms around this. Just think about all the question that you get asked on a regular basis because anybody who’s in business or anybody who’s thinking of getting into business are going to get just those questions that you hear all the time. Write those down. Spend a day, spend a week, just logging, creating a log of all those questions, and get as many as you can, then go back and create the answers to those questions. There’s your content. If you’re not a writer, dictate it. Go get like Dragon dictation on iPhone or put it in the voice memo and hire a freelancer for $5 on Fiverr or something to transcribe it for you. That’s your content. That’s a great way to get really relevant content that’s probably going to have strong focus that sure [unclear] trust because that’s what people are looking. [Crosstalk] JIM: I’ve got a question…Sorry to interrupt. But one thing that comes to mind as I’m listening, how do your help your client determine what they ought to be targeting? I’ve had clients before and they say, “Well, these are going to be at the top of the list on Google,” and you go back to make a question and say, “For what?” It’s pretty easy to be at the top of the list for your company name, but that’s not really what you want. You want to figure out what it is your customers or potential customers are looking for. How do you help them think through those types of things? MIKE: That’s a great question. I kind of eluded to that, and just what I said, which past you get your mind around those questions are briefly asked, that’s probably going to be a really great way to understand what people might be [unclear] in people. The first question that somebody asked me is, “How do I get my website number 1 on Google?” That would be a question I’d answer that might be something that [unclear] or any of the search engine. A lot of our small businesses, those questions are practiced with how to do this? When you get those keywords, or those things that your audience are asking, if you’re not in business already, it’s harder to be this. But if you’ve been in business any length of time, you’d probably get the same darn question asked over and over again. The one you get asked 100 times, that’s your number 1 question, and that’s probably a good starting point for what are people typing into Google. Now, there’s other ways to do it. I’ll kind of turn it over to Steven to talk about the technical, but we can examine your customer, your competitors, what your competitors are doing, what they’re targeting, what keywords they’re targeting. A lot of times, after doing AdWords and they’re paying for those keywords, we can have like pretty good idea of “These are the important of keywords.” Let me turn it over [unclear] to Steven. STEVEN: It’s the natural side of it. You’re always writing for your user obviously when your keywords should be relatively obvious that if you’re a dentist, what’s your keywords there? But there’s some good tools out there, too. You can use SECockpit as one that I use often for keyword generation. There’s SpyFu keyword generator. And of course, the free one is the Google AdWords Tool which is going through some revisions right now, making elaborate tools and making some changes. But if you go in and you put your main keyword in there, which you should know your main keyword, again, we’ll use dentist, if you’re a dentist, it’s going to come back and it’s going to tell you dentistry and all the long-tail terms that people are going after and the competition and the things to go after for. One other good tool that I’ll throw that’s really inexpensive and I think it even have a free version for bloggers is called “HitTail”, H-I-T-T-A-I-L. HitTail is a script you would spell on your website. What it does is it compares your Google Analytics to your content and it comes back on what you write about. It comes back at, “Hey, these are people who are fighting you on the long-tail keyword.” That’s going to tell you dentist and all of the – it’s going to tell you sedation dentist and opening in their feet. But it’s going to give you suggestions about what to write on those 4 or 5 keyword suggestions that you are already given link number 1 on and get your traffic up. So that’s a really good tool to [inaudible]. CHUCK: Interesting. MIKE: One of the best ways for me that I’ve been able to take a route over time, this kind of thing changes, too, it’s not just [unclear]. You’re constantly looking at this and assessing this, it may change over time. One of the most powerful ways to getting on to place as where my clients are or my prospects are and understanding what it is – I know I’m heartened at that – but understanding what they’re asking, what they’re problems are, that’s what Google is there for in reality – a problem solver. That’s why it’s so popular. If you have a problem, you go to Google and you go, “How do I do this?” And up tops a gazillion thing because somebody has created that content for it. And the person who wins is the one who creates the best content – the best quality. That’s the first thing you’re going to [unclear], you can come back to, you can even give them your email address. Think about where you can go -- every niche, every industry, every business is a little different -- where you can go that your perfect client, perfect prospect is hanging out already? For me, a lot of those are [unclear] on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a great place to go and see what conversation people are having, what kinds of questions they’re asking. Social Media Examiner for me is great and that’s an online magazine for social media manager. And tons of people all in these different companies, big and small, all over the world has [unclear] for Social Media Examiner and may answer your question. So I can throw in and think we’re constant to see what those questions are and in fact I’ll tell you, some longer tail keywords thing, sometimes they’re not so obvious, but they get a ton of traffic. For example, I did a video, a YouTube screenshot video, where I show folks how to put the recommendations box on their Facebook page. On that, people are asking questions so I just renamed the video, it’s “How to Close the Recommendations Box on Your Facebook Page”. Or maybe you can even call this ‘My’ because a lot of people looks like they’re not going to type ‘Your’, they’re going type ‘My’. So, I get a ton of traffic for that video, I get a ton of hits to it, and a ton of traffic from it. And it’s targeted because I’m answering a direct question. So a little food for thought there, just think of where your audience is hanging out and go and spy on. [Unclear] CHUCK: I want to go back to Google just for a minute. Is it worth trying to get to the top of some of the more generic searches? Like for example, if I type in Ruby on Rails developer, which is what I do, I wind up getting like 9 billion results or 9 million results or something like that, and if I type in Rails developer, I get 25 million results. Does that mean that’s going to be harder to get to the top there? MIKE: Oh, yeah. The more specific you are -- if I want to optimize the keyword SEO, which I always tell Steven I want to be number 1 for SEO (I’m working on it), but that’s [unclear] gazillion results for that. So where am I going to start? I’m going to probably start on page 5000 with the brand new site, and my site is new as of January really. So 6 months later, 7 months later, I’m not going to be number 1 for SEO – SEO Consultant. Now we’re starting to narrow it down. The more words you put on there, on that keyword, the more you’re narrowing it down. When you start thinking longer like ‘how do I do this in Ruby on Rails’, you’re hitting a more targeted keyword, where there’s not as much traffic, but there’s more specific and targeted traffic, that’s better traffic but better quality traffic. But also, you’re still working on the words ‘Ruby in Rails’ so you’re still working that in there. One of the hard things for people to get their arms around it -- sometimes search comes down to ego, everybody wants to be number 1 -- the most important thing, a good marketing when you’re getting clients means that you have the right message, you have the right media, and you’re hitting the right market as the old Dan Kennedy say. If you’re a Dan Kennedy person, you’re [unclear] right message, right media, right market - all those 3 things has to be right. You have to be saying the right things on your site, you have to be delivering it in the right way, and you have to be getting the right people. Targeting traffic, sometimes, it can be good and it’s important to do that, but we rather have 5 people find us who are the perfect match to our message than 5000 people who are not the perfect match. Somewhere along the lines, obviously, you can get 5 million people, we may get a client, too, out of that, but reality is work up on those keywords that are super targeted to have a little bit of traffic but it’s perfect traffic for you. REUVEN: So how do I go about doing that? Let’s say on the angle [unclear] so I do a lot of training. So I can imagine, based on what you told me, choose [unclear] to go in. One would be the [unclear] training and that would be to find what the collections people have. But what if I want to be one or both of those, what do I do to my site in order to get people attracted to those keywords or link those keywords [unclear] for my site? STEVEN: The way keywords are still working we’ve always worked, is Google looking for relevant content on your site master keywords. Again, I’m a big [unclear] of HitTail and long-tail keyword because, again, they’re looking for buyer’s keywords or control keywords. The big keywords are great, but it takes a long time to get there and out far unless you really have the content and long-term support to get there if you’re fighting it up to a battle. So take a long tail keyword, run a HitTail report, or run a report that gives you, “Okay, I want training on Ruby Rail New York,” or whatever it is you want to come up with there. Make a page or a post dedicated 2 that topic. You really want 1 post or 1 page per keyword or per set of keywords that gets you something that focus so your title tags are on that topic. You’re doing a good page structure with some good internal backlinking with that at the topic. Make sure your H Tags have your H1 or H2. If you have a page that talking about Ruby on Rails training, the subtopic of the training should be on good H2 Tags so that Google knows these 3 tags, what it is, get a good structure that way. And of course, Backlink when you’re going to have to go after backlinks, you’re going to have to go and give them some structure going there, the link into it. But if your page is really well optimized, you’re clean and strong and want specific topic, and your internal structure is good and everything come together, the good first step that you’re going to hold, you’re not going after to something that’s not be able to get changed. CHUCK: That’s really interesting. So basically, just to give you an example, let’s say that I want to write ‘Budgeting Software’ in Ruby on Rails, I can write a blog post or a series of blog posts that basically outline, “Here are the concerns that I have while writing the software. Here’s how I wrote the software. Here’s what the software does.” You can continually be putting up budgeting software in Rails – I wanted to say episode, but I guess it’s number 1, number 2, number 3, and then what you did with it. In that way, people can find it because you have that information in the page where Google will read it in consumer. STEVEN: Absolutely. Again, if you think about it as just close that it’s like a podcast, you’re going to want to go back and link those together. So if you’re writing a theory on this post, backlink your new post back to your original post to give them more authority. As you continue to grow and get those foundation, really is that episode, if you think about it, it’s a good way to continuing the thread on, finding related post, finding related topic. If you have a page on your site dedicated to that topic and supposed it’s linking back to your pages -- people forget the basics of the internal charts or internal linking and internal tags and image optimization, all those things are just as important as backlink strategy these days and becoming more so the way that Google is treating. MIKE: At the end of the day, the thing I want to see people do, too, is really write for this human being and forget about the search engine to a certain extent. Write to your customer, write to your prospect because all the search engine optimization in the world is not going to make somebody die from you. If you’re writing to your customers’ needs, to your prospects’ needs, and you’re doing really well because you have really good content that truly valuable to them, you’ll be doing more good for yourself in SEO than anything you could do. There’s the social media element. A lot of people don’t know how intertwined social media now is with search; search is non-social. Social signals are increasingly more important everyday for search engine optimization, but also for [unclear] where it’s bad. You write something I Google it, I find you, and then I go share it to my audience on Facebook  because it’s relevant. I’m like, “Oh, my god! The great speech content every,” so you get even more out of that syndication. Does that make sense? CHUCK: Uhm-hmm. When I’m putting the page together, obviously, I’m going to want people to love it and share it. I think that’s more important, at least to me, than having all the key group words in the right place. But if I can’t put the keywords in the right place, where do I put them? Is it the Header Tags? Is it, I’ve heard Title, I’ve heard Meta Tags?  MIKE: I’m going to answer that from a little bit of a marketing and technical trivia, I’m going to let Steven finish it off and correct all the things that I got wrong. But if you’re going to want to see what’s in your title of your blog post, you want to have it maybe in a headline and then up here in the body. I’ll let Steven telling [unclear] me things up brought stroke walking. But to that, or as my [unclear], worry about one thing. Because when you’re talking about really one specific thing, and this is going back to the beginning when I said “Time those, FAQ those frequently asked questions,” sometimes, people go to abroad with it; they’re trying to answer too much of one blog post. It’s very, very difficult actually to stay really tight on one target for a blog post or a podcast, but if you tear that down, it’s going to be so much easier to get that word and developing words that go with it to appear in the blog post in the right place so making happening very organically for you without you even trying. So let me turn it over to Steven and let him [unclear], in real technical places. STEVEN: Obviously, the domain name itself, the exact domain, they’re becoming more and more crucial. So if you can get your keyword in the domain, that’s a huge plus. If we’re getting that, obviously, your post of the same title is most important, that’s definitely number 1. And then your H Tags, as you work your way down to your title; it really should be an H1 Tags in most cases. If you break in the good writing skills, make sure you have the paragraph topics you should have H2 or H3 Tags in there, and keeping these H Tags is important. Meta Tags as far as Google is concerned, is pretty well badged; you really don’t have to worry about Meta Tags anymore. There are some exceptions to that rule that are out there in some of smaller search engines. I typically still fill them in, but from the Google’s perspective, Meta Tags are gone. And then in the body itself, don’t do one of the old school style of, “Okay, I want to rake on XYZ doctor,” and copy that exact keyword 20 times in the article because I want my density to be so high that it expands out. Write naturally. Google is now looking to have what’s called [unclear] which is looking at variations. So it knows doctor or it knows DR or it knows medic, and there’s no other related keywords that are on topic. So as long as you are using your keywords, using variations of your keywords, your mix matches, that type of thing, and you’re on topic, your writing will naturally flow strong enough to make sure that your density is good and that your audience is reading it. And keep in mind some of the little things you can do such as images; image optimization is always important. [Unclear] Tags is still an important one, making sure that your tags are there, again, as less critical by the [unclear] to get the keyword to show back up. Categories to be used in a CMS like WordPress or one of those; if you can put stuff into a specific category, then always use an easy way to get it in there. Use it wherever you can without prime that squeezes in and most that’s too obvious, that’s really about the fine line to get along there. CHUCK: Alright, great. REUVEN: With all the work now, people are having more and more JavaScript on their sites. Does that affect SEO at all? My gut feeling is that, yes, it does, but I’m still good to hear about it. STEVEN: JavaScript is one little thing. If JavaScript is primarily ignored by Google, they do make certain things, it’s not completely ignored, but it’s not as crucial. What it does come into play those too much JavaScript or too much animation things going on and affects your page speed. Page speed is that one that Google is looking at; your load times and that type of stuff. So you got to balance the creativity and what’s the script doing for you and what’s that it is giving you versus what’s the drag, it’s called [unclear] over side, it means it’s worthwhile. And there are some things you can either think it’s really good cast form and you’re pointing back to WordPress or was that [unclear], W3 Cache or one of these [unclear]. You can put your content on a CEN like [unclear] or others out there. Those types of things will give you the optimization to identify the script clean up, that kind of stuff that JavaScript will impact you so much so you’d use the usability without [unclear] too much. CHUCK: I have another question. We’ve been talking a lot about Google – I understand Google is the big dog in the fight right now – but you also have Yahoo and Bing and some of these other ones out there. A particular interest to me is the fact that Apple announced that iOS 7 by default will look things up on Bing now instead of Google. So if I tell Siri to find something for me, it’s going to look in Bing. Are there different approaches for ranking in Bing or Yahoo as opposed to Google? STEVEN: There are some variations. The basic core structure is the same. Yahoo isn’t or obviously different, but they’ve written map for each other. So if you follow best practices on one, you’re automatically optimizing for both. So I’m playing with it. I will say Bing, they respond to backlinks more than Google does right now. They’d be having downplayed backlink as what Google has in the last year. Typically exact match, exact keywords, backlinks. Google is being sort of the [unclear], Bing seems to still support [unclear] exact match of keyword density more than Google does. Bing is also much more social connected right now than Google is, and I say that in a very general way. Google, if used in a social term, end the stuff in their algorithm. But Bing is actually showing social result – Facebook results, Twitter results. There are more up to speed with some of the social that’s happening in the result pattern. So, keeping things on Twitter and Facebook are already more targeted for Bing. But usually, if you’re writing your page structure, your content for Yahoo, for Bing, you’re optimizing for all of them. There’s a general purpose thing. Those things are still the same; there’s no real major variations [inaudible]. MIKE: I think Google is a little more [unclear]. Not only do we talk about them and we kind of use Google as the catch-all per search because they own the market share, but they’re much more [unclear]. They will allow the change to their algorithm that just share this to people. It affects massive portion of their index and they grow businesses as you [unclear]. The recent changes we’ve seen say a good 50% of the client that come to us or coming to us with a [unclear] of some sort but they don’t even know they had. And it’s Google, it’s on Google. It’s not on Yahoo, it’s not on Bing, it’s on Google. So that’s another reason why I think you’ll hear us use the word Google for search. STEVEN: Yeah. And we’ll take, 2, too, for anybody that looking at their statistics and their analytics and their speed, and all these types of things, Bing Webmaster tool in my opinion is far superior than to Google Webmaster tool in most cases. They really have done a great job in the last year or year and a half of getting Bing Webmaster tool to really give you a good grade telling what’s going on, or what your strength are, what your weaknesses are. Everybody kind of just forgot to play with Webmaster tool in Bing and most people don’t bother or optimize for web master tool for Bing. The insights I get there typically on a client’s side is better than Google or more relevant than Google on some of the more detailed side stuff. So it’s interesting to run both and see what the person does. CHUCK: I was actually about to ask you about the Webmaster tools. Have you found that it helps you to have your site registered in the web master tools for these different systems? STEVEN: Absolutely. They give you warnings but they’re studying either joking all time, but they give you good tips. They really come through and they’ll tell you something’s going on, they’ll tell you if there’s an update that you need to be able to look at, you can see if there’s sudden drop off in some of your keywords, and where your traffic is coming from. Google analytics and the analytics [unclear] were better off the side of the overview. But when you really get down to the page level stuff, webmaster tools definitely has some of the insights that are useful or important with the [inaudible]. Even like [unclear], you talk about your robot file, if your site map is doing what it’s supposed to, and if there’s any errors that you need to look at, the analytics are, you’re looking at different things, you’re looking at your traffic versus those sites have those technical issues that you need to figure out. What my page load, those types of things that you need to be able to look at for the hard court kind of go to really improve. CHUCK: Nice. I’ll have to check this out. STEVEN: The thing is instead of [unclear] with Bing Webmaster tool, definitely, people forget to register their site map, Bing Webmaster tool site map, even the other small guys around apps site maps are still out there; make sure you drop loads in there. And of course, the one that everybody forgets [unclear] such as these directories had changed so much, Demos is still out there and still feeds at how a little search engines are better out there. So if you don’t have a Demos profile, it’s still a very critical thing to have does it. CHUCK: I have one more question; my dad is a dentist. So his business is local, mine is not. I have work for clients in all parts of the world and that’s interesting, so I don’t really I guess optimize my stuff for local searches. Maybe I should, but I guess that’s a discussion for another day. I guess my question is, though, how do you optimize for local searches? At mostly Google Maps, or is there more to it than that? STEVEN: That’s been more to it than that. Google Place and Google Maps or Google+, whatever they decide to call it, if that make critical than a ton of traffic there, building citations to going out and getting, it doesn’t work on a backlink system link, your website does, they go up with complications. It looks for your name or address and your phone number on other high-ranking sites – Foursquare, White Pages, and on and on, there’s tons of amount there, and it looks for that connection back. It looks that you reviewed, these are important. Having those powers and the reviews done, if you look at typical results that have reviews that they ranked higher in the one they don’t. Google authorship is a relatively do or one; making sure your picture shows up with your post, in your blog post, and your content is becoming a higher or ranking [unclear] and giving stability and ranking higher. As far as the website goes, there are few things you can do. On a WordPress site or a CMS site, there are plugins you can use that will add tagging to your post and to your pages. Yoast Local has massive of typical Yoast for present field, but they actually with local plugin, that’s available. That place to KML file and the file that it needs to register for local, making sure your page matches; having your business address, your phone number on the contact need. But even Google recommends on a sidebar or on the footer, having your address on every page that you put out, again, get those vacation back to show who you are and where you are. And again, you can do it – [Crosstalk] MIKE: I just want to, sorry, to interrupt…Big mistake people make is they use a PO Box. In a lot of single operations where they don’t have a physical address, they use a PO Box, and you want to have a physical street address. For instance, the post office now will allow you, I’m pretty sure it’s national, or I’m going to use your street address. Their street address as their main address, my business address is a post office address with the box number. But PO Box will not really be picked up by Google at this point. STEVEN: Right. You don’t want PO Boxes. But make sure your address matches exactly, too (it’s a critical error). If you used Ts on 1, don’t use T on another. It’s really particular without make those citations. And then there’s a ton of other stuff. Google who has its own optimization structure that’s just way out there as well, on your images, you can add the city and things to use his name, making sure that you got your Geotag, you put them up on website that you’re geotargeting; geotagging is important. Making sure your pages optimize with your categories, then your right credentials, your business hours, and all those things. There’s a lot to local maintaining to make sure it’s kept up. So you want to make sure you’re looking at both at websites for local perspectives. If you really aren’t local business, do you need the citation? Do you need the business structure set up? If you’re a national company, you’re probably lets critical because you’re not as worried about people around you as you are across the country. MIKE: The other thing is, from the content point of view, write locally. Write to your location, and that’s most of the challenge for content creation. In most headline, you’re going to want to talk about knowing your problem, the problem of yourself, and the thing that you’re trying to talk to people about that. The location; when I ran the Martial Arts School, we were located in Brookfield, Connecticut. We have been gone for a while now, but we’re still probably – I don’t even know, I don’t have the connection with this Martial Arts School anymore – but if you’re back 3 years ago, if you searched on anything in Brookfield, Connecticut, my Martial Arts School came up, and that’s Zandri’s Martial Arts. You can search on ‘Pizza’ in Brookfield, we would come up somewhere on that page. We’re always writing tons and tons of content and it would be “Stop fooling in Brookfield, Connecticut”, “Kids stop fooling in Brookfield, Connecticut”, “Kids Party looked at Connecticut” or something that has Brooklyn, Connecticut in it and you can see why Pizza Party would come up, because we talked about having a pizza party for children, we talked about it in the blog post. All of the sudden, we’re everywhere for every combination locally. CHUCK: That’s awesome. That makes a lot of sense. And yeah, it’s something that I’ve really been thinking about with my business because it seems like a lot of the local businesses, they hear about me from somebody local here and it seems like, if people were finding me on the web, then they could go validate with their friends instead. STEVEN: Yeah, definitely. Keep your mind to all that that you talked about cell phone searching Bing. A lot of the other app that the program that runs on GPS using cell phone are searching Yelp, Bing, they’re searching Foursquare, and they’re searching these things where you pull up their card, and you pull up their GPS direction whether they stopped you locally or not if you have a restaurant or that type of business, could matter if you have reviews and you’ve done your local citations well more than just your website because they’re not fighting for that; they’re fighting your and all those other review sites. So it’s definitely important people to look at. CHUCK: Awesome. Are there pieces of SEO that we haven’t discussed that we missed because we just didn’t know to ask? MIKE: In my perspective, there’s tons and tons of stuff. We could talk about it for hours [chuckles]. But to my perspective, the system will agree that with their search, light a ton of stuff, man. Be prolific. It sounds like, I guess you’d call Bing everywhere. When I ran Martial Arts school, before the internet, before where we’re really worried about the internet, we are just everywhere. You couldn’t throw a stone Brookfield; they can bury you in Utah and anywhere in Connecticut that needs server. We couldn’t go anywhere without seeing us somewhere. We need to do, ad cards for instance. That’s one of our marketing mechanisms, ad card, which uses a little post card with our marketing on it and I would go to every single store that had a counter, and I would quit our ad cards; [unclear]. I used to go in business cardholders who put my ad card and they stood up like a source phone. Literally, you could go on an errand where you maybe shopping for family picnic. You’re going to liquor store, you’re going to butcher, you’re going to market, and you would see us five times on your trip. That’s one mechanism that allowed me to be everywhere. And same thing online, be everywhere. Get a Facebook page, get a Twitter page, get a Google+ account, be on LinkedIn, and be everywhere that you’re prospect is going to be, bringing content that takes them back to maybe essential place – your blog, or your website, or your kind that social content helps. Or even, you’re doing on LinkedIn, driving people back over to learn more about you on your blog. If you do that and you create this great content to people, people will start sharing it and you’re going to just used your pass the air because you’re going to explode over time, not from the technical point of view what our things that obviously you need to do, but at a very least, from the starting point, create content. STEVEN: Yeah, keep the content. And the other thing that are out there to keep in mind are some of the simple stuff people overlooked; doing those blogs are easy, doing YouTube videos. Remember, YouTube is the second largest search engine right behind Google, we’ve been YouTube to Bing. Video images and images are huge thing. When you post an image on Facebook, it gets shared and making up numbers 10 times everyone content post. People love pictures, they love videos. Make sure you’re doing some graphics or putting out a video. There’s programs like Animoto or ways to do video on Fiverr, you don’t have to be – you can do your own video, but there are ways to do it without getting crazy that escapes; it helps you rank, the big side of your content keyword. Google loves videos, and really, it’s a big one to use. That’s not only typical people make it out to be. And then Mike I said really make sure make sure your covering the scope. Work on the basics, work on your keywords, look at your target audience, make sure your structure is good, and don’t do it in crazy, don’t go buying backlinks, or falling for the latest gizmo program whatever that sounds good that you’ll see for backlinking. You’ll do okay. You have to keep working on it, but to rank well on your own will just start in those basic structure. CHUCK: Awesome. Alright, well, let’s go ahead and roll into the picks then. Eric, what are your picks? ERIC: I’ve actually going to pick this first, it’s been mentioned in the show. I use “HitTail” for all of my sites. It’s really great. The problem that I’ve kind of mentioned in the chat, the problem I get on my blog which is my main site is a lot of the search that come in are not provided which basically means that someone’s logged in to Google, most of my audience are developers, freelancers, they’re logged in to Google so like, 80% something of my keywords I can’t see. That’s a Google Analytics, it’s almost worthless for me. But HitTail actually helps out quite a bit with that. It doesn’t get those [unclear] for me, but it will actually go through the other 15% that I do get and will make suggestions like, “Hey, Eric, you should write about this long-tail keywords,” or “You should write out this one.” Another good thing, it doesn’t just works with Google, it works with all the search engines including the international Googles. I’ve getting recommendations from the Canadian version or the Indian version and it’s nice because it’s on those, there’s a lot less competition, and I might actually be able to get on page 1 on stuff that – I’m like on page 20 in the US. So, I’ve used HitTail for a while. It’s really inexpensive and if you’re going to be doing a lot of writing, I’d recommend it. CHUCK: Awesome. Reuven, what are your picks? REUVEN: I don’t know if you got any [unclear], but I’ve discovered a fine TV show called “Continuum”. I think, Chuck, you actually picked it a long time ago on the Ruby Rogues. I never actually looked it up because I’m sure [unclear]. And I just finally found it on iTunes, it’s interesting in [unclear], it’s [unclear] underneath superficial. Anyway, I recommend it to people like science-fiction, time traveling, [unclear]. CHUCK: Awesome. Alright, Jim, what are your picks? JIM: I’ve got 2 divine-related picks. There are 2 blogs that if you’re interested in getting inspiration for any design work, you should check out one of “” and there’s a hyphen in there. If you go to swiss-miss without the hyphen, you’ll go to an instant hot chocolate company. So, check them out. And then another one is called “Design*Sponge”. Design*Sponge is just kind of the place that I go to get a view for important things; we talked about a bunch of different things like colors, interior design, and just design of objects that come in things like that. So, check them out. CHUCK: Awesome. Alright, I’m going to give one pick. This may not surprise anybody who was in this channel [chuckles] a few days ago. My joke was basically that there’s still a gray matter on the wall and I’m not sure if that’s from me banging my head so hard against it, or when my head exploded. I was trying to use QuickBooks to get my books done because my bookkeeper messed up my books and I was trying to get my taxes filed. Anyway, I pulled up my profit and loss statement, and it said, “You made -$50,000 last year,” and all of the numbers were totally wrong that made that final number come out. So I was like, “Okay, great.” So I tried to go into – REUVEN: [unclear] CHUCK: Yeah, I sent her a nice little email and said, “Thank you for all of your work. Don’t worry about refunding me, but we’re done.” Anyway, I went in to QuickBooks online because that’s what I was using to try and figure that out. That didn’t work. And you can’t export QuickBooks online and the QuickBooks for Mac so that didn’t work either. To make a long story short, basically, what I wind up doing was, if you remember a week or two ago, we had Steven Bristol on the show from LessAccounting. And so I went and tried out their application, and guess what? It actually works! And I can figure out how to use it. So, I’ve sunk a whole bunch of money in the QuickBooks and I’m just taking that as stupid school tuition, and I’m using LessAccounting now. So “LessAccounting” is my pick. And just to add to the fact that it’s easy to use, I ran into a problem importing my Paypal history, and their support person actually took my Paypal history, export it to a file that I could import into their system, there was just something funny with the CS that I was trying to put in. She went to the trouble of actually doing the conversion for me so that I could get all those transactions into the system so that I can get my books done so I can get my taxes filed. Anyway, they’re not only is the apps designed awesome, but their support is excellent, too. I was also getting emails from Allan, who is Steven’s partner so I was getting help from all angles from the company, and I’m just super happy with them. Anyway, that’s my pick. Mike, what are your picks? Did we lose you? It does look like somebody dropped off, but all the phone calls look the same to me. Steven, what are your picks? STEVEN: Actually, I just found a site called “Web Presence Optimizer”. That is a keyword tracking tool. It’s primarily for bigger sites; it’s not going to to too small sites. But if you’re getting in the retracking multiple sites and doing keywords and analytics and everything in one spot, it got some real nice tools for giving you optimization suggestions, keyword tracking, not only tracks on Google and Bing, but it actually lets you do external link for like your YouTube videos and your past release and that kind of stuff. It’s a real nice tool to use if you’re retracking, go check them out. CHUCK: Awesome. Alright, well, let’s go ahead and wrap up the show. Thanks for coming again, Steven and Mike! STEVEN: Oh, our pleasure to be here! CHUCK: Alright. Anyway, we’ll be done. We’ll catch you all next week and thanks for listening!

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