100 JSJ Centennial Episode Celebration

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07:45 - JSJ Opening Music Mystery


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js-git with Tim Caswell


JAMISON:  Well yeah, you can’t just list anything. That’s outrageous. Can you list a mother’s love? [Laughter] [Hosting and bandwidth provided by the Blue Box Group. Check them out at BlueBox.net.]  [This episode is sponsored by Component One, makers of Wijmo. If you need stunning UI elements or awesome graphs and charts, then go to Wijmo.com and check them out.]   [This episode is sponsored by Peer60 Incorporated. Peer60 Incorporated knows that the best JavaScript developers hone their skills by listening JavaScript Jabber podcasts. If you’re looking for a frontend or full-stack development opportunity, helping Fortune 100 companies understand their customers better, email jobs@peer60.com.] [Do you wish you could be part of the discussion on JavaScript Jabber? Do you have a burning question for one of our guests? Now, you can join the action at our membership forum. You can sign up at JavaScriptJabber.com/jabber and there you can join discussions with the regular panelists and our guests.] CHUCK:  Hey everybody and welcome to episode 100 of the JavaScript Jabber Show. This week on our panel, we have Aaron Frost. AARON:  Hello. CHUCK:  Merrick Christensen. MERRICK:  Hey guys. CHUCK:  AJ O’Neal. AJ:  Coming at you live from OAuth land, which happens to be Provo. CHUCK:  Jamison Dance. JAMISON:  Hey friends. CHUCK:  Joe Eames. JOE:  Hey there. CHUCK:  And I’m Charles Max Wood from DevChat.TV. And this week, we’re going to do something a little bit different for episode 100. We’re just going to talk about the show, how it works, some of our favorite moments, things like that, and just in general enjoy the fact that we are now doing our 100th episode. Can you guys believe we’ve done a hundred of these? JOE:  Kind of crazy. MERRICK:  You know, it’s amazing. I haven’t even been around for all 100. I think I joined around episode, well let’s see. What was it? I want to say 26? CHUCK:  Yeah, something like that. MERRICK:  It was earlier than half. But it still feels like I’ve been doing JS Jabber for a while. AARON:  I was a guest on 68 and joined sometime in the 80s as a panelist. JAMISON:  There’s a lot [inaudible] in that era. I’m just saying. CHUCK:  Yeah, AJ and Jamison were on the original panel. And then we had Tim Caswell. No, Tim wasn’t even on the original, was he? JAMISON:  No, Yehuda Katz was. CHUCK:  Yehuda Katz was. AARON:  Wow. Peter Cooper. CHUCK:  And I think Peter Cooper helped us start it off, yeah. So, Peter Cooper’s been an original panelist on two of my shows, because he was also on Ruby Rogues when we started it. AARON:  It’s kind of unfortunate that you lost your British guy. Most places have a token British accent. JAMISON:  Well, here we have Aaron’s fake British accent. AARON:  Yeah. MERRICK:  That’s more pirate-y than anything else. [Laughter] JAMISON:  Sometimes. CHUCK:  I love it. AARON:  I can make it more pirate-y, but it is what it is. AJ:  Guys, did you know that I dress up as a pirate sometimes? AARON:  [I believe this]. MERRICK:  One part about this show is AJ’s constant ability to make me lose my words. CHUCK:  Yeah. JAMISON:  [Laughs] MERRICK:  He’ll say something and I’ll just be like, “Uh…” I just have no words. CHUCK:  Yeah. It’s like, “I don’t know what to say to that,” and then the next thought that goes into my head is, “I don’t have anything that I even want to say to that.” MERRICK:  My first thought is, “I hope that’s under appropriate circumstances,” because there are a lot of inappropriate chances to dress up as a [pirate]. AJ:  No. No, there are no inappropriate circumstances in which you dress up as a pirate. Waiting in line at McDonald’s dressed up as a pirate? Not a big deal. And most appropriate circumstance? Talk like a pirate day, Krispy Kreme. Free donuts if you’re dressed as a pirate. You have to wait in line for two hours, but it’s worth it if you’re with little kids. AARON:  So, as a new panelist, I’ve never known. I’ve wanted to ask. I’ve never asked. Is it normal to just kind of ignore some of the things AJ says that are weird? [Laughter] CHUCK:  What? Did AJ say something? MERRICK:  No, no, no, AJ, we love you. AARON:  Yeah. MERRICK:  We love you. AJ:  It’s okay. Sometimes, I wonder why Chuck doesn’t kick me off the show. Sometimes, I’m a little bit scared. Is today going to be the day that Chuck kicks me off the show? CHUCK:  You know, sometimes Chuck wonders why Chuck doesn’t kick you off the show. [Laughter] JOE:  Aww. CHUCK:  But then I think back on what you said and I just laugh my head off. MERRICK:  The beautiful, constant AJ is your, “Yo, yo, coming at you live from the same place pretty much every week.” I want to believe that you’re this world traveler, that one day you’re going to be like, “Yo, yo, coming at you live from somewhere different than Provo.” But you always have a way of dressing up Provo. AJ:  Well, I think I started that when I was in, maybe in Philadelphia or when I was in Iowa. There were a couple of weeks last year when I was traveling and so I was in a different city for four episodes. And then I dropped off the face of the planet and wasn’t back on the show for three months. CHUCK:  That was Iowa. He dropped off the edge of the planet. JOE:  Yeah. Right. [Laughter] MERRICK:  That’s true. I’ve seen it. AJ:  There is a little bit of a ripple in space-time there. If you’ve ever had an ocular migraine, you know what a space-time ripple looks like. So, there’s one of those in there. You just fall in and pop out two months later. CHUCK:  Oh my gosh. I have to go look up ocular migraine now. [Chuckles] JOE:  I was thinking it’d be way awesome if we took every AJ saying, “Coming at you live from ____,” edited them all together, and so it’s, “Coming at you live from blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,” all in a row. MERRICK:  Actually, that should be a special feature. We’ll sell that sound bite by default. CHUCK:  There you go. AJ:  I want royalties. MERRICK:  We want to sponsor that one sound bite. AARON:  Yeah. CHUCK:  Yeah, we’ll put it into little ringtones or something so you can have notification messages on your phone, “Yo, yo, yo.” MERRICK:  Yeah, we’ve picked on AJ enough. I’ll open up the door to picking on me. I consider myself, as Jamison put it, the prodigal son of JS Jabber. I’m the hit or miss. You never know if I’m going to show. So, I’m also lucky that Chuck hasn’t kicked me off the show. CHUCK:  We just ping Joe and he’s like, “I’m texting him right now.” [Laughter] AARON:  [I broke] this by doing the AJ thing. MERRICK:  My life’s just a complete mess, if you guys only knew. JAMISON:  Your aura of mystique. MERRICK:  [Laughs] That’s like, “Oh, man.” It’s the whole roll. JAMISON:  What’s he up to? Is he in his superhero cave right now? JOE:  [Laughs] CHUCK:  That’s right. MERRICK:  I wish I had some sort of celebrity personality to relate to. I don’t want to be the Kanye West of JavaScript, but I’m willing to be that if I have to. JOE:  Tell me honestly Merrick, do you have a fortress of solitude? MERRICK:  Oh, man. I’m going to be real with you Joe and say I don’t even know what that means or where you’re going with that. [Laughter] CHUCK:  What it is, is when he’s getting ready to go to work, he puts his cape on, slides down the pole, and then drives out through the waterfall. [Laughter] AJ:  Hold on. I think we got a serious issue. We got to discuss it. Did you say you don’t know what the fortress of solitude is? MERRICK:  I’m now guessing it’s a Batman reference. CHUCK:  Nope. AJ:  Oh, oh. JOE:  No, you just went down one notch on the geek list. CHUCK:  No kidding. AJ:  I think he dropped, if one notch is, we’re looking at logarithmic order, then yes. I’ll agree with that. JOE:  [Laughs] MERRICK:  Comic books aren’t really my scene. I’m sorry. JOE:  And AJ just went up one notch on the geek list. MERRICK:  I’ve never picked a comic as part of my picks. JAMISON:  I’m going to pick one today. That’s how cool I am. AJ:  Well Merrick, what do you call it when you work from home? Because I’d call and I’d be like, “Hey guys. I’m in the fortress of solitude today,” and then I’d hang up the phone so they couldn’t… JAMISON:  Merrick says he’s taking some Merrick time. MERRICK:  I call in and I’m like, “Hey guys. It’s everything I can today to get out of bed.” [Laughter] AJ:  No, the fortress of solitude as a coder is where you go when you don’t want to be annoyed by coworkers that are going to be asking you, “How does this work? Can you help me with this? Can you check this?” and you just want to be able to actually get work done. MERRICK:  See, the problem is I am that coworker that’s always asking everybody those things. [Laughter] AJ:  Makes sense now. JAMISON:  I do that a lot, too. CHUCK:  So, one other aspect of the show I want to bring up is the music. Everybody asks me what the music is and I’m always like, “Um, I think the band is Inu? The Bailing?” I can’t remember where to find it. JAMISON:  Okay. I will tell you the tale of the music. The tale of the music is for the first few episodes, we used this royalty-free track that Chuck found, which was royalty-free, which is really cool. But it sounded like a cover of some crappy, who’s, Smashmouth band or something? I don’t know. MERRICK:  So, it sounded royalty-free? JAMISON:  It sounded totally free. MERRICK:  [Laughs] JAMISON:  Like no one would pay money for it. MERRICK:  Not even royalty would use it for free. JAMISON:  Yeah. CHUCK:  It might have been free. JAMISON:  And Chuck is a hero because he got it together, so we had music. But I just didn’t like it. So then, I just emailed the band and asked them if we could use their song. I don’t feel like it’s JavaScript Jabber particularly well. It was just a song I really liked when I got sick of the music. [Laughter] AJ:  Wait, hold on. Hold on. Are you talking about the song, the one that goes, “There’ll be pay for most of us?” JAMISON:  Yeah. AJ:  You picked that? JAMISON:  It’s the intro song. Yeah. AJ:  Why did you do that? I hate that song. I always think it’s so weird. [Laughter] JAMISON:  AJ. [Inaudible]. I was about to say that I learned from all this making fun of Merrick and AJ that I’m above reproach. That’s what I realized. AJ:  Right. JAMISON:  But apparently not anymore, because I picked the song. AJ:  Have you heard that song? [Laughter] JAMISON:  Yeah, dude. They’re one of my favorite bands. AARON:  AJ, have you never listened to an episode from the site? [Laughter] JAMISON:  Do you know that that’s the theme song? AJ:  I don’t think I’ve ever listened to one of the early ones, or I just didn’t remember. Because whenever I listen to it, it’s always that, “There’ll be pay for most of us.” [Laughter] CHUCK:  I think only the first two or three episodes have whatever music I found on it. JAMISON:  We’ll call it Chuck’s Lament. That’s the name. [Chuckles] CHUCK:  Yeah, now people are going to go back and listen to episode one just so they can hear it. AJ:  I know I am. JOE:  Another thing I think would be hilarious to talk about would be the crazy locations we’ve recorded from, physically. JAMISON:  You do not want to know what I use this mute button for. [Laughter] AJ:  Jamison’s mostly in the bathroom. Mostly. JOE:  I want to know, Jamison. I want to know. JAMISON:  [inaudible] that. Well, you’ll have to not know. I’m just saying. [Laughter] JOE:  It’s part of your mystique? It’s part of your mystique and mystery? MERRICK:  Don’t say use our imagination. JAMISON:  No. JOE:  Please don’t. CHUCK:  Oh, man. [Laughs] JOE:  Because I think I’ve recorded from fairly crazy locations some episodes. MERRICK:  Like where? JAMISON:  Like from mountaintops? What do you mean? JOE:  Well obviously, the little rooms at Domo are a fairly interesting location because they’re those little tiny rooms and there are paper-thin walls. And then the rooms next to you, you got sales people yelling on the phone at some random customer. JAMISON:  Not to mention your Domo sales train whistle thing. [Laughter] MERRICK:  Sorry guys. Yeah, we have that. AARON:  Yeah, that was last week. The [holy] whistle came on. MERRICK:  But, I would like to point out, that entire sales celebration system, we have a full on industrial sized train horn that goes off to celebrate when a customer is happy. And that is all powered with JavaScript and Node. So, it is in some sense a promotion for the podcast. AARON:  It’s JavaScript-y. MERRICK:  It’s all using WebSockets and JS. So, I think it’s appropriate. That should be our entry song. JOE:  It should be JAMISON:  [inaudible] is the train whistle. AARON:  Honestly. [Laughter] JOE:  Yeah, with the gain turned way up so it’s really loud. CHUCK:  There you go. Woo-woo! [Laughter] JOE:  In addition to that, I’ve recorded, literally, I have recorded while sitting in my parked car in the parking lot of Domo. CHUCK:  I remember some of those. [Laughs] JOE:  Yes. And it was absolutely horrible because it was in the summer and so it was hot, right? And I can’t turn the air conditioning on because it was too much background noise. JOE:  Oh my gosh, AJ. JOE:  I would mute my mic and then open up the door and let a little bit of cool air in. [Laughter] JOE:  And when I needed to talk, I’d shut my door because it was right next to the freeway, so I couldn’t leave the door open. MERRICK:  Right. JOE:  Otherwise, there’s too much noise. I’d then shut the door and unmute my mic and then talk, and then mute my mic and open the door back up because it was so hot in that car. CHUCK:  Oh, that’s funny. MERRICK:  That was also a timeframe where everyone at work wondered if Joe’s wife had left him or something. [Laughter] MERRICK:  Because he had nowhere to go. There’s this poor guy living out of his hot car. JOE:  Right. CHUCK:  [Laughs] JOE:  Have you guys ever recorded in anywhere interesting? MERRICK:  I’m boring. Man, I’ve done the car thing once and it was pretty unsustainable. I remember one episode where somebody called in and we kicked him off. It was like over EDGE network or something, like 3G Skype, and the sound quality was so bad. JAMISON:  I’m pretty sure this person who remains nameless was driving at the time, too. [Laughter] AJ:  Yeah, [that was me], wasn’t it? JAMISON:  AJ, I was trying to preserve your reputation. MERRICK:  Yeah, bro. We were trying to be [inaudible] gentle and you got to throw yourself… AJ:  It’s okay. I remember that. It sucked. I was like, “Wow, this is the worst thing ever.” CHUCK:  Yeah, I remember dropping you on purpose. MERRICK:  Oh, yeah. Guys, I’m at Disneyland right now. I’m about to ride the magic mountain. So, I’m not… [Laughter] MERRICK:  …we’re going up. JOE:  That would be awesome. MERRICK:  That’s pretty epic. CHUCK:  I have done it from some clients’ offices. I’ve traveled a few times and I remember recording a couple of shows from a client’s office. I don’t know if this was one of them. But I’ve also just taken the digital audio recorder and just sat down with people and recorded stuff. MERRICK:  Oh, I want to know what you guys’ favorite episodes have been. JAMISON:  I was looking through the list. MERRICK:  Yeah? JAMISON:  A lot of them, I feel like are ones I wasn’t on. I don’t know if there’s a theme there. [Laughter] JAMISON:  But I really like the V8 one that we did. I think it was episode 8. There is just some really good info about V8 internals. CHUCK:  Didn’t we talk about V8 and Dart on that same episode? MERRICK:  We did, yeah. JAMISON:  Yeah. MERRICK:  They’re a similar team, right? JOE:  I really liked that one. And that was one of the ones I wasn’t on. But that was one of those ones that just for me was blowing me away. JAMISON:  Yeah. MERRICK:  You know, that was almost two years ago. So, maybe it’s time to get [the V8] guys back in here. JAMISON:  That’d be super cool. JOE:  Yeah. JAMISON:  I loved the one with David Herman when we talked about ‘Effective JavaScript’. CHUCK:  Oh, that was so good. JOE:  Oh, yeah. JAMISON:  That book is really good and he’s also just incredibly eloquent. He was a great guest because he could pull interesting things out of our dumb questions, which is a talent, definitely. JOE:  Oh, yeah. CHUCK:  Yeah. I think James Burke was one of my favorites. We talked about RequireJS. MERRICK:  Yeah, he’s such a very personable liaison. JOE:  Well, the episode with David Herman and Ariya Hidayat? CHUCK:  Yeah. JOE:  About parsing ASTs and language grammar, I remember that being one of those episodes where I was just like, “I can’t even follow what these guys are saying.” [Laughs] CHUCK:  Yeah, it broke my brain. JOE:  Yeah. JAMISON:  [Laughs] CHUCK:  I think another one that surprised me a little bit after we had it, but when we had Scott Hanselman on, episode 71. You know, I was like, “Okay. Microsoft. Whatever.” And he came on and he gave us a bad time about having a bad attitude about Microsoft. [Chuckles] CHUCK:  Which is totally deserved, by the way. But at the same time, he came in, he was all class. By the time he left, it was like, “You know, they really do kind of get it. Or at least, they have people over there that get it.” AJ:  That was literally, our only episode that’s had any real amount of drama to it. And I don’t know, [mostly just] I’m sure… MERRICK:  No. No, dude. The episode where we had Yehuda Katz and Jeremy Ashkenas was like… [Laughter] AJ:  Oh, that’s right. That’s right. MERRICK:  That was like the Jerry Springer show, man. AJ:  Okay, that’s right. That’s totally [inaudible]. MERRICK:  I just wanted to be like, “Jerry! Jerry!” It was just so out of hand. JOE:  Well, there’s a story to the Hanselman episode that I think is worth telling the listeners. They probably didn’t, may or may not have ever noticed, but there was a blog post written. So, Hanselman gets, he’s worried or he’s thinking that maybe we’re attacking him. And Aaron and I are the ones shooting questions. And we’re really not trying to, but just the way that our questions are, and we don’t necessarily understand exactly what he does at Microsoft, which was our problem. And so, we were throwing questions out that he just had no idea about. And he’s just trying to toe the party line for Microsoft. And so, then this blog post gets written afterwards about how we jumped on him like a bunch of paparazzi reporters asking about his campaign funds. [Laughter] JOE:  And it’s a scathing blog post. So, I talked to him over Skype and apologized profusely. And he was completely cool about it. He’s like, “No, no, no. No big deal.” He was really cool. MERRICK:  But the real question is did he write a follow up blog post apologizing for scathing? JOE:  Well it was somebody else that had written the blog post about it. It wasn’t him. MERRICK:  Oh, okay. JOE:  It was totally somebody else that listened to it and then was just ripping us for having jumped all over Scott. MERRICK:  It’s been a while since the internet mob has come after us. JOE:  Yeah, it has. At least, that I’ve noticed. CHUCK:  Yeah. They also came after us a little bit over the JSON APIs episode. JOE:  Yeah. JAMISON:  I don’t know any of this stuff. I didn’t know there was an internet mob that came after us ever. AJ:  Yeah, what was the one about the JSON APIs? I’m interested to hear that. AARON:  Oh, that one’s [tough] dude. CHUCK:  Well, what it basically boiled down to was we tackled a broad topic. And I don’t think we went into depth on enough of the ways of doing things where people really have strong opinions about it. So, we didn’t do justice to any of the methods of doing it. AARON:  Actually, if I remember right, AJ you dropped off on that session, didn’t you? AJ:  I remember being there for it. I might have cut out with an internet problem or something. But I remember being there. AARON:  One of the main commenters that was flaming us, he said, actually, there’s only one person on the podcast who actually understands REST and he dropped off. [Laughter] CHUCK:  That was AJ. MERRICK:  You know, I got to say, my favorite episodes have been the Dave Herman episode with ‘Effective JS’. I loved that book. It’s still my favorite JavaScript book to date. It was just this mind-opening book from this language that I’ve been coding in fulltime for five years. But it still had so much in there that I was just so blown away by. I loved the episode with, I can’t pronounce his name very well, but Ariya Hidayat with the Esprima parser. But the episode that I really actually liked, and I didn’t think I would like, was the episode on burnout, just because it was good for me to hear the authenticity of the other panelists around burnout and addressing it honestly and openly. Because we as engineers, we’re all [inaudible] way better than we deserve in the first place by our employers. So, it almost feels like an injustice to acknowledge burnout. But I really like that episode because of the authenticity I experienced, particularly from Jamison. JAMISON:  Aww, thanks. I feel like that was group therapy. MERRICK:  That was a Dr. Phil episode. CHUCK:  Did everyone get to say their favorites? AJ:  I want to chime in with two. And they’re not my favorites because of the content. They’re my favorites because of the people. So, episode 79 was Lo-Dash with John-David Dalton. And I just have a man crush on that guy, because he’s such a boss. Sometimes, I go to use a JavaScript library and I’m on GitHub and I take a look at the issues because maybe I’m having a problem and I want to see. And undoubtedly, if that library has Underscore in it, he’ll have an issue open that’s “Why aren’t you using Lo-Dash instead?” [Laughter] MERRICK:  That guy, he brings a competitive nature to programming that very few people have. AJ:  But he’s such a sweet talker. He doesn’t come across as super punk. He just is super punk. MERRICK:  I think that depends on who you are. I’m sure some people would think he comes across super punk. I personally, he’s the guy that I’m just like, “Well, I can’t disagree with any point that he makes, so I’m just going to have to get on his team.” AJ:  I think he’s awesome. MERRICK:  Yeah, I do too. I really like him. AJ:  And then Reginald Braithwaite. MERRICK:  Oh yeah, that was excellent. CHUCK:  Oh, right. AJ:  The episode 70, JavaScript Allongé. MERRICK:  Yeah, that was excellent. AJ:  I just love the way that he, I don’t remember the content as much as I just remember the feeling that he projected of just really sipping in JavaScript and breathing it and feeling the aroma. The title of the book really goes well with the way he described his experience as a coder, more artistic in a sense. MERRICK:  I really like Reginald. And didn’t he sponsor a couple of episodes, Chuck after that? CHUCK:  Yeah, he sponsored for two months. MERRICK:  What a great guy. I thought that was really cool of him to support. AJ:  Yeah. Hey Aaron, what about you? AARON:  So, my favorite ones were the John-David Dalton. I really liked that session. And like AJ, I have a big man crush on him. I also have a wicked man crush, like a mental attraction, it’s transcending into the physical-ness… [Laughter] AARON:  To David Herman. And the guy is pretty awesome. AJ:  To whom? MERRICK:  It’s David Herman. Dave Herman. AARON:  That was Dave Herman, yeah. And then also Alex Russell talking about the TC39 and the process that they go through to further the API. CHUCK:  Yeah, that was pretty enlightening, wasn’t it? AARON:  Yeah. JAMISON:  I just wanted to bring up one more that I really like. I don’t really remember anything we talked about in the episode, but the end. That was the one we did with Fat and Alex MacCaw about Bower. I just remember that he picked hot dog chips or something as one of his picks. [Chuckles] CHUCK:  Yeah, that sounds about right. JAMISON:  Shout-out to the picks on that one. AJ:  So Chuck, I think it would be way awesome if we could put together a poll and poll the users as to which episode of the first hundred was their favorite. CHUCK:  I could do that. I can also tell you that by downloads, the most popular episode by about 5,000 downloads was episode 4 where Jeremy and Yehuda were discussing the differences between Ember and Backbone. Let me give you the top ten by downloads. That was the top one. That one’s had 24,874 downloads. And just to give you an idea, the next one has 19,024 downloads and that was ImpactJS with Dominic Szablewski. I killed his name, I know. And then the next ones are episode 1, and then episode 12 where we talked about design patterns, then episode 5 JavaScript objects, and then episode 2 the right way to build web applications, and then episode 86 and that’s Ember.js with Discourse with Robin Ward. The eighth one is AngularJS, episode 32. And then episode 71 with Scott Hanselman. And then number 10 was Node with Mikeal Rogers. JAMISON:  It’d be interesting to see those normalized by date somehow. So, it’s not weighted so much towards the ones which had been out for… MERRICK:  I know. When I heard that, I felt like we were the TV show that stayed on too long. [Laughter] MERRICK:  Ooh, we got all our good ideas out right at the start. AARON:  Well, it’s like when someone starts reading a book or something, they’d usually read the first five times, the first part of it, because you say you’re going to get through it but you never get through it. And so, the first part you know by memory, and then the end part you trickle on. So, most people started it and probably never finished it. MERRICK:  Yeah. I get it. I’ve been born of goodly parents a few times, if you know what I’m saying. JAMISON:  I get it. I get it. [Laughter] CHUCK:  But at the same time, we have episodes 80, 84 and 86 in there, and episode 71. So, those were definitely things that hit people in the right place. JOE:  Right. Another episode that’s totally worth mentioning is the specialized versus monolithic with James Halliday and Tom Dale. CHUCK:  Yeah. JAMISON:  Oh, man. Despite the technical difficulties. AJ:  That was a good one. JOE:  Yeah. JAMISON:  That was where substack’s Skype was broken because of [Unix]. JOE:  Yeah, it was terrible. It would have been so much better with that. JAMISON:  And then he came on to talk about Unix. CHUCK:  I’ve gotten so much feedback on that, like emails and stuff, where people are saying, “Look. What you need to do is you need to go back and have Tom Dale come on, for one. And then have substack come on for one. And that way, they both can say their piece.” [Laughter] MERRICK:  Yeah, that was a real Jerry Springer style episode, too. JOE:  Yeah, it was. AJ:  See, I love those. I love it when people express how they really feel. When it starts to surface to the point that emotion breaks out and it’s no longer just details, but it’s like morally wrong or right. [Laughter] MERRICK:  It is a little interesting that JSJ could also stand for Jerry Springer Jabber. [Laughter] AARON:  That’s true. That’s messed up. [Laughter] MERRICK:  That’s messed up. CHUCK:  So, a few other milestones that we hit. Last month, we hit our one millionth download. January was our first month to go over 70,000 downloads in one month. And February was 69,884. So if we’d had three more days, I’m just saying, we would have beat it. It’s generally been trending upward with our listenership. And that’s all on the listeners. That’s awesome. I’m so glad. I see tweets all the time, people saying, “Check out JavaScript Jabber,” and I really, really appreciate that. JOE:  Yeah. AJ:  So, here’s another interesting one. What about guests that you guys would like to see on that we haven’t had? Or episodes on a technology you’d like to have that we haven’t had? JAMISON:  I want to have Jenn Schiffer on to talk about California style sheets. I think that would be really educational. MERRICK:  Or PHP the hood parts. JAMISON:  Yeah, [inaudible]. MERRICK:  Man, she is just awesome. I just love following her. She’s hilarious. Julie Ralph with Protractor, the testing tool on here. We talked to the guys from Facebook about Huxley and I think it’d be interesting to talk to her about… JOE:  Yeah, she’s scheduled. MERRICK:  Oh, terrific. JOE:  Yeah. I would love to see us have Brendan Eich on. CHUCK:  That’s what I was going to say. MERRICK:  Yeah, that would be amazing. The father. The father himself. JOE:  Yeah. And Anders, I don’t know how to say his last name, Hejlberg? [Inaudible]. MERRICK:  Yeah, that would be amazing. AARON:  And C#. JOE:  Yeah. That new framework, the new Express-type framework. Zoa? MERRICK:  Koa? JOE:  Zoa, Z-O-A? JAMISON:  It’s K-O-A. JOE:  What? JAMISON:  Are we talking about different things? MERRICK:  No, he must be talking about something different than us, dude. JOE:  Yeah, Zoa. MERRICK:  Are you talking about ZoaJS? That’s just a weird… JOE:  Yeah, ZoaJS. MERRICK:  That’s a weird name. Are you sure you’re not talking about KoaJS, bro? JOE:  No, definitely not. MERRICK:  Can you link this? JOE:  Yeah, I’m going to find it. MERRICK:  I’m going to save it. I feel like you’re making this up. CHUCK:  Yeah, Google is failing me here. MERRICK:  It’s also just a weird name. It’s like calling your project SuperExpressJS. It’s so similar sounding. You’re trying to fool people to go to your framework instead. JOE:  I’m going to find it. MERRICK:  Ruby on Sails. [Laughs] CHUCK:  Ruby on Sails? That was a great event. [Laughter] CHUCK:  I was there. KoaJS, huh? MERRICK:  Well, no. Joe is pretending like there’s something called ZoaJS. [Laughter] MERRICK:   But I’m just waiting for him to drop the act. JOE:  I probably got the wrong name. I’m going to find it. MERRICK:  Well, well, well. AARON:  Koa’s there. JOE:  Just relax. Just relax. CHUCK:  I’m going to start a project now and call it ZoaJS. MERRICK:  I am too, just because it’s the only way I can get anyone to use my open source projects. CHUCK:  [Laughs] Is to have Joe mention it erroneously? [Laughter] MERRICK:  Is this another [inaudible]? JAMISON:  No, it’s the John Travolta effect. You just get someone to horribly mispronounce your name and then you get more famous. Current event humor, in case this gets listened to years later. [Laughter] JAMISON:  Just imagine I’m really topical and witty. MERRICK:  Oh, just in case we’re making history. JAMISON:  Yup. MERRICK:  I don’t think we’ve had TJ Holowaychuk on here, which that guy is… CHUCK:  No, we haven’t. AARON:  I would love to talk to that guy. JAMISON:  He writes 80% of the code I use, I feel like. MERRICK:  Yeah. He kind of is a huge contributor to Node.js. When people think Node, who are really deep into Node, they often think TJ Holowaychuk. Or Express, or Jade, or Mocha. SuperAgent, or [inaudible], or co-parallel, or commander, or insert any other popular library here. But he would be an awesome guy to get on here. But he’s so busy writing code, I don’t know if he ever takes the time to talk to people. AARON:  Yeah. He wrote Stylus. MERRICK:  Stylus? Yeah, yeah. AARON:  A lot of people have a whole stack built around that. MERRICK:  Yeah. CHUCK:  So, I have to say that the way that we tend to get our guests on to the show is that one of us will mention it, either on the show or to Mandy, and then Mandy will go track him down. And so, I wouldn’t be shocked if we wind up lining some of these people up here within the next few months. MERRICK:  Yeah, that would be terrific to talk to TJ. JAMISON:  Shout-out to Mandy. CHUCK:  Yeah. In fact, it’s funny. This show hasn’t experienced any of these issues, but when we started Ruby Rogues, I had a different assistant who was editing the shows and doing all that work. And just to fill the listener in a little bit, we record these shows, I actually call everybody on Skype. We’re just all on the same channel. And then I record it into my digital audio recorder. It’s an Edirol R-09. And what I do then is I copy it off of there onto my computer and I send it over Dropbox to Mandy. And then Mandy edits it and writes the show notes and puts it up. And anyway, it’s been a really just terrific process. But when we started Ruby Rogues, I had a different assistant who was doing the editing, and he would get three or four episodes behind. So, we would release two or three or four episodes at a time and drove people crazy. And so, Mandy’s just been super consistent and a big part of the way that we do these shows. And so, I definitely want to shout out to her and just thank her for all the work. She’s also starting her own consultancy called DevReps. You can go to DevReps.com and hire her or one of the folks. She’s been pretty particular about vetting people. So, you’re definitely going to get somebody good if you go to her and hire somebody. MERRICK:  Plus Chuck, the fact that you’re the godfather of podcasts, tech podcasts. CHUCK:  I don’t know about that. I think Leo Laporte owns that title. MERRICK:  I feel like we need to start some fights with Leo. [Laughter] MERRICK:  And just get real territorial. CHUCK:  Let’s not. I’m trying to get onto one of his shows. MERRICK:  Oh, okay, touché. [Laughter] JOE:  So yeah, you guys are right. Koa is what I was talking about [inaudible]. MERRICK:  Oh, well, well, well. JOE:  Yeah, yeah, yeah, you’re right. AARON:  Who would have thought? [Laughter] JOE:  So, I hit TJ Holowaychuk over at Twitter to get him to come on and talk. As Tim would attest to, he does not want to come on to talk. So, then I asked him for a referral and some other guy was like, “Yeah, maybe in a few months,” for somebody who knows and has worked with Koa, can talk about it intelligently. So, if you know Koa and can talk about it intelligently, please contact us. MERRICK:  Or even ExpressJS. JOE:  Yeah. MERRICK:  I think we can get some of the contributors to Express on here, because that framework’s definitely more prolific than Koa. Koa’s definitely interesting because it’s using all the new generator stuff. But Express, it’s the blessed child. CHUCK:  Yup. AARON:  I would like to see Crockford. Talking about controversy, I bet we could get that guy to get some blood boiling. MERRICK:  Let’s get Crockford and Fat on here, but we’ll surprise him with Fat. Like, “Oh, Crockford…” JAMISON:  [Chuckles] Oh, like on Maury or something? MERRICK:  Exactly. [Laughter] JAMISON:  You bring out the chicken to the person afraid of chickens? MERRICK:  That’s exactly what I’m going to do. Well Crockford, we’ve got someone here you might think is interesting to talk to. Jacob Thornton. AARON:  Yeah. [Chuckles] AARON:  We’ve done a DNA test. You’re his father. [Laughter] CHUCK:  Oh, man. MERRICK:  Oh, amazing. JOE:  That’s true. MERRICK:  That would be terrible or wonderful, dude. It’s like a true Star Wars moment. Jacob. I’m your father. CHUCK:  No! [Laughter] CHUCK:  That’s impossible! MERRICK:  Oh, [fetch]. JAMISON:  Merrick, I’m surprised you know what Star Wars is. MERRICK:  Yeah, me too. Actually, you can’t work with Joe and not have an intimate understanding of Star Wars. Joe’s son’s middle name is literally Anakin. Is that not true, Joe? JOE:  That is true. That is a true fact. MERRICK:  And Joe wears a Star Wars t-shirt at least every week. AJ:  Joe, I don’t know if you know this, but Anakin is the name you give to a dog, not a human. [Chuckles] CHUCK:  Oh, man. JOE:  That’s low, bro. That’s low. CHUCK:  I totally thought that Merrick was going to say, literally once a week Joe comes into the office wearing a big robe and cowl. [Laughter] JOE:  Hey, I own a robe and cowl that I won at Domo on their May the fourth celebration. MERRICK:  Yeah, we did do a May the fourth, like May the fourth be with you celebration. And they hired some Jedis to come in here and… [Laughter] JOE:  [You know, that same thing you] do at Disneyland. MERRICK:  Office perks in this age for… AARON:  All Joe’s Java code, the name he names it, .jar, so that when he builds it into a jar it’s jar.jar. [Laughter] MERRICK:  jar.jar? CHUCK:  Oh, man. That is the worst thing to ever happen. JOE:  Yeah. I would never do that. AJ:  So, I actually don’t think that Jar Jar Binks was as bad as the Padme/Anakin love story that just didn’t work. And also, I want to backpedal for a second and say I’m sorry to anybody who’s named Anakin. It’s just that I’ve met several dogs named Anakin but I’ve never met a person named Anakin before. So, I take it back. JOE:  So, how about interesting picks? Can you guys think of any interesting picks? AJ:  My nose. JAMISON:  I remember there was a long stretch where Chuck forgot to come up with picks so he would just pick working on his car. [Laughter] MERRICK:  He’d look around something in the room. CHUCK:  I plead the fifth. JAMISON:  Yeah, like what did I do this week? I fixed my engine. I’m going to pick this wrench that I used. [Laughter] JAMISON:  And I wanted to make fun of him, but I was [inaudible]. MERRICK:  Obviously, I liked izs, when he picked ‘Nonviolent Communication’ because that was a book that I followed through and read and I really liked it. CHUCK:  I didn’t pick that one. JAMISON:  That was Isaac’s. MERRICK:  Isaac’s, izs. Izs is what his Twitter handle is. Sorry. AARON:  There’s the Zumba was big. The Zumba made it onto the picks. No, the Roomba, the iRobot thing. Not Zumba. MERRICK:  DJ Roomba? AARON:  Yeah. That’s a weird pick. MERRICK:  You know, now that I think about it, we’re kind of coming short on picks, aren’t we? We should make another poll that asks people, do you care about picks? And then we’ll probably just ignore the poll anyway, because picks are the best part of the show for us. JOE:  Right. AJ:  Agreed, agreed. CHUCK:  Yes. [Laughter] JAMISON:  Sound strategy. CHUCK:  I always get good stuff out of the picks. JOE:  Yeah, me too. CHUCK:  One thing that I think is funny is that AJ always picks stuff that is only in Utah County. [Laughter] CHUCK:  And so, we have listeners all over the world and I’m like, “Oh, he’s sitting there going sorry guys, come visit I guess.” AJ:  No. There’s no sorry about it. CHUCK:  One thing that I think is interesting too, about just the lifespan of the podcast is that there were some big JavaScript conferences and events going on. But over the last two years, the language and community have grown leaps and bounds, just huge. There are conferences all over the place. There are all kinds of interesting things going on, people writing new libraries that do new things. I just get so excited when I hear about some of the stuff that’s going on. MERRICK:  I look at some of the stuff that we can, JavaScript as a language has just progressed massively. I’ve been looking at RethinkDB and their query API. And I was just like, “Wow, this is fascinating.” This language is becoming even more ubiquitous than it has been in the past, because people have embraced it as ubiquitous which furthers that prophecy and it makes it even more ubiquitous. Atom.io, the editor now, aiming to be completely tweakable with just JavaScript and web tech, it’s just amazing. I feel like I really stumbled into learning a language that at least created some career value for me. If I stumbled in, I was like, “Guys I’m an OCaml developer,” then I probably would have invested my time. CHUCK:  [Chuckles] OCaml. [Laughter] AARON:  Yeah. MERRICK:  A little bit harder for me to get a job. AARON:  I feel the same. I studied Java and C# for a long time. And then one day, I started groping around on my own in JavaScript. And I show up at work and all of a sudden, you’re the professional because no one’s writing single-page apps in JavaScript and no one’s making a cool thing happen in JavaScript. So, you go from a regular developer to a senior developer based on your mastery of a language that’s relatively unknown. JOE:  Right. MERRICK:  And it’s so easy. JavaScript is a pretty straightforward language to learn. JOE:  One of the things that have amazed me about this show is all the crazy techs we’ve had on, like React for example, that I was just completely blown away by, that there has yet to be something on that Merrick hasn’t played with and doesn’t have an opinion on. [Laughter] CHUCK: That’s so true. MERRICK:  Oh, I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing. JOE:  Always assume good until proven otherwise. MERRICK:  Okay. I have a lot of enthusiasm about stuff coming out and like to play with it. I don’t like to come across super opinionated, but I think I do, which is a little disappointing. JAMISON:  Will this be the podcast where we forget to edit out the awkward pauses? [Laughter] JAMISON:  And you’ll know. You’ll know the truth. JOE:  That actually happened? JAMISON:  What happens when… AJ:  Maybe it just needs to be raw this time. CHUCK:  I don’t know about that. AJ:  Just let people hear it like it is. CHUCK:  I sound way better when Mandy edits out all the dissociations and [laughs] verbal ticks I have. JAMISON:  If she could drop my voice by a few octaves and increase the resonance and stuff, I would appreciate that. CHUCK:  Yeah, that’s a phenomenon on Ruby Rogues. Avdi Grimm. JAMISON:  Yeah, exactly. AJ:  Yeah, I would prefer to sound like… JAMISON:  She could use the Avdi Grimm filter on my voice. I would appreciate that. CHUCK:  There you go. AJ:  I want the Arnold Schwarzenegger filter. Come with me if you want to code. [Laughter] MERRICK:  Oh my god. AARON:  Edit it out. MERRICK:  Oh, dude. That was actually, that was pretty good. JOE:  That was pretty good. I like that one. CHUCK:  What about the intro to the shows where she always puts a clip at the beginning of the show? AJ:  Aren’t I 45% of those? CHUCK:  Yeah, just with your mommy bloggers moment. That was 45% of them right there. JAMISON:  I don’t remember that. CHUCK:  You only have to go back a couple of episodes. “This is the home of the mommy bloggers,” it was so classic. Oh my gosh. AARON:  I actually recorded a JavaScript rap that I would like to see made as our intro video from here on out. MERRICK:  Our intro clip? AARON:  Yeah. JAMISON:  If you [rhymed] them, it’s good enough. AJ:  I’d support it, never having heard it or knowing what it sounds like. AARON:  No AJ, you’ve heard it. MERRICK:  I don’t know what your rhyme scheme is looking like. JAMISON:  Yeah, yeah. Spit some rhymes into the mic right now. Let’s test it out. MERRICK:  Let’s freestyle. AARON:  That’s the thing, is I just made it with that auto rap app for the phone. CHUCK:  [Laughs] MERRICK:  Oh no. AARON:  I really spit it out into this pretty sweet awesome [inaudible]. MERRICK:  You talk in that sort of gangster-ish way, I feel like you could be the first programmer who’s also a viable… JOE:   Star rapper. MERRICK:  Yeah. AARON:  I’m tough, too. MERRICK:  I could see that. AARON:  I’m pretty tough. MERRICK:  I wouldn’t get in a fight with you. AARON: No, I know. MERRICK:  I’d avoid it. AJ:  I wouldn’t fight. CHUCK:  That’s right. [Chuckles] CHUCK:  So, should we get to the picks? Are we done? Is there more to talk about? MERRICK:  We could do some picks. CHUCK:  AJ, what are your picks? AJ:  So, what was it that I was going to pick? Oh, let me get to this little gist I’ve got open here. Oh, oh, oh yeah. Yeah, I’ve got something picked already. So, what I’m going to pick is the best headphones in the known universe, actually just the multiverse. The best headphones. The best ones. They are the beyerdynamic DT 880s and I may have mentioned them once before, but they were sitting on my desk and looking so pretty and I had to mention them again. They are extremely comfortable as long as you don’t get a metal spur on one of the little edges that cuts your finger. That could be uncomfortable. But they’re really, really comfortable around your head. You can wear them for hours and hours and hours and hours and forget they’re there. The sound is great. They’re touted for having a very neutral sound, not being too bass-heavy or too treble-heavy. Just really authentic to what the recording is, is what a lot of the reviews say. And I really enjoy them. I think that if you listen to any type of classical music, you’d definitely need some open back headphones and these are open back. They’re probably not as good for listening for more clubby music. I love listening to everything on them, but I do notice that with my closed back headphones, they sound a little bit more awesome some of that bass-y type stuff. And if you are hardcore, which I mean if you’re going all the way, why not be, right? You get the 600 ohm version, which I don’t know if it’s actually any better than the other one. But you have to have an amplifier in order to listen to them. So, then not only are you too cool to carry them around with you, but you can’t use them unless you have additional equipment. So, it really just makes you a boss. MERRICK:  I love that at first you’re trying to act all distinguished. It’s really good for classical music. But if you’re a boss, you’ll ump the amperage. So, I just picture you listening to Beethoven. [Laughter] MERRICK:   At horrible volume amounts and just feeling amazed. JOE:  Do they make Justin Bieber sound any better? AJ:  I got a relatively cheap amplifier. Yes, Bieber sounds even better. I got a relatively cheap amplifier. It was only a couple hundred dollars. So, I can’t actually turn them up loud enough to get the headphones to really go. I probably should have bought the lower end version. Not lower end, but not the 600 ohm version, the 100 ohm or whatever it is. But somebody was like, “Dude, if you’re going to get them, you got to get this one because they’re better. They sound so much more awesome.” I don’t think that any human being can actually tell the difference. So, I don’t necessarily recommend that you actually get the 600 ohm version. Probably just get the one that’s cheaper that would work with an iPod without and amplifier. CHUCK:  Awesome. AJ:  It’s only $5 cheaper. CHUCK:  Alright, Merrick, what are your picks? MERRICK:  So, I think I’m a real tender-hearted guy because I always have sentimental picks. JAMISON:   Aww. MERRICK:  But I’m going to pick this show. I love you guys. JAMISON:   Aww. MERRICK:  I feel very blessed to be on the show. In fact, there have been times when I’ve gone out to speak at conferences and people will come up to me and talk about the show. You know, you forget that people actually listen to the end of this microphone, because we’re just recording on Skype out of our offices. And this show has a real positive impact on what I feel is my contribution to the world. So, I’m really grateful to be a part of this show. My second pick is RethinkDB. I’ve used Couch and MongoDB a fair amount, but mostly I’ve spent my time in relational databases. I am really enjoying RethinkDB. It’s got some really solid query languages for JavaScript, Python, Ruby. They’re talking a DSL-ish approach. But they have a lot of interesting things like built-in sharding, built-in synchronization like Couch, joins. It’s just a really interesting database that I’d recommend taking a look at. And those are my two picks. CHUCK:  Alright. Jamison, what are your picks? JAMISON:  So, I have four. One is the same pick that I’ve been picking forever, which is MountainWest JS, coming up, I think 13 days now. CHUCK:  That’s in two weeks. JAMISON:  Yeah. And I’m super excited. And it’s going to be really awesome. So, if you’re in or around the Salt Lake City area, or you want to be, come join a first-rate conference. It’ll be really good. My second pick is BiteLabs.org. And it fits my theme of picking weird joke that I think are funny that no one else on the podcast laughs at. MERRICK:  This is the grossest thing I’ve ever seen in my life. JAMISON:  Yeah. I’m pretty sure it’s fake. But basically, it’s an ad for a company that will grow meat out of celebrity tissue samples and use it to make artisanal salami. [Laughter] JAMISON:  I laughed for day when I read this. MERRICK:  The website looks like there is a tremendous amount of effort that went into… JAMISON:  Oh yeah, it’s pretty slick. I hope it’s real. Someday, I’ll be able to eat Evander Holyfield just like Mike Tyson. MERRICK:  It looks like Kanye West is on here. And so is James Franco. JAMISON:  My only question is does it support dead people? MERRICK:  Ooh, that’s gross. AARON:  Guys, the jokes that we could be, I’m holding back all the jokes, is all I’m saying. JAMISON:  Okay. MERRICK:  I eat dead people. I eat dead people. [Chuckles] JAMISON:  And okay, my last pick. It’s an iPad app called Bottom of the Ninth. It’s an interactive comic. It was an experiment by a professor at a university around here. I guess it didn’t do super well commercially because it’s free now. But it’s still out there to download in the app store. And it’s just an incredible experience. It’s a really well-written story and comic. Just the art design is really good too. But they did an amazing job of using the medium to do interesting things. So, there’s lots of interaction with the comic in added sound and stuff. It’s sweet. That’s all I have to say about it. The end. CHUCK:  Awesome. Aaron, what are your picks? AARON:  I’m going to throw four picks out today. So, the first one is, by the time this podcast is out the conference will be going on. It’s FluentConf. It’s next week. And my buddy Dave and I are doing one of the keynotes on day two. It should be pretty fun. But it’s a really cool JavaScript conference in downtown San Francisco. My second pick is my JavaScript Rap. I hope we can get it put as a soundtrack for the show. [Laughter] AARON:  It’s linked in the notes to the show. So, go listen to it and vote. JAMISON:  Is this royalty-free? Because it sounds about royalty-free quality. [Laughter] MERRICK:  Are you listening to it? JAMISON:  I am. I’m listening to it right now. MERRICK:  Come on, it’s [inaudible]. CHUCK:  If I click on it, it’ll play on the show. Dare I do that? AARON:  I think you do. Yeah. [Laughter] CHUCK:  You guys can’t hear it, but the listeners can. AARON:  They can? CHUCK:  Hang on. It won’t play. It’s defective. JAMISON:  It’s Dropbox. So, it takes a little bit to load. AARON:  So, my next pick is GeoLib.js. My buddy Paul and I, we were doing a hack-at-night project here at Domo the other day. And we needed to do some geo calculations. So I found GeoLib.js. I’ll link it in the notes. But it was wicked easy to do a ton of geo calculations. And we did literally hundreds and hundreds of these calculations in less than a few hundred milliseconds. So, it was really, really nice and it saved me from figuring out how to do all the math. And we were able to just bust out a cool project. So, GeoLib.js. And the last one is the Instagram API. That’s what we were busting out the GeoLib stuff for, was to map where your pictures are and show you your furthest away from home ones and try and detect your home based on the majority of your pictures and the likes and stuff. But it was pretty cool. So, the Instagram API is my fourth pick. CHUCK:  Awesome. Joe, what are your picks? JOE:  I’ve got two picks today. So, my first one is something, well actually, they’ve both been picked before. The first one is a re-pick of Chuck’s pick for the last two or three weeks straight, which was the book ‘Basic Economics’. Because Chuck kept talking about it, I got a copy and started reading it. I’m only a tenth of the way in but I am just absolutely enamored with this and feel like this should be required reading in order to be a human. CHUCK:  [Laughs] That’s how I feel. JOE:  There are so many things that people just don’t understand about economics. And they think they do and they don’t. And so, it leads to so many stupid decisions not about personal finance, but about what politicians do and what we let them get away with and stupid things like that. So, it was such an eye-opener for me. So, I’m going to pick that book. I’m actually going to get it on audiobook and listen to it on a big trip down to California I’ve got coming up. And my second pick is going to be Pluralsight.com, which sounds a little self-serving of course, because I’m an author for them. But I just got out of the Author Summit for Pluralsight.com this last weekend. It was really cool. The CEO gave a keynote about the goal and the mission of the company which was to bring hardcore technical training for developers and IT personnel to the world. And they showed this map of pins of everywhere in the world that they have subscribers. And it’s just crazy to see people in the middle of Africa and all over South America and all over India, rich places in the world, third-world countries, people being able to get access to the same really good quality training for developers. So, I’m going to pick Pluralsight because I just really believe in their mission of improving the world through education. MERRICK:  Cool. CHUCK:  Awesome. AARON:  I love it. CHUCK:  Alright, I’ve got a couple of picks here. The first one is called Cloud and it’s a Mac app. And what it allows you to do is like a quick Dropbox. So, you can move a file up and it’ll copy it up to the cloud. And then it’ll copy the link to that to your clipboard and then you can put it in wherever. I absolutely love it. I’ve been trying it a couple of times and it’s just really, really handy. The second tool that I’m going to pick is Transmit. And it’s an FTP Amazon S3 client and I really, really enjoy. I really like how useful it is. So, it actually, it’ll remember your favorites. So, for example I just copied a whole bunch of files up to CacheFly who is a new sponsor for these shows. And it’s just really, really handy. So anyway, I’m going to pick Transmit as well. And my last pick, I’m pretty sure I’ve picked this on the show before. But I’ve been doing some coaching lately and using it. It’s called Screenhero. And it’s a screen sharing software. It includes voice, but usually what I wind up doing is muting Screenhero and using Skype for voice. But it’s an awesome app as well. So, those are my picks. I don’t think we have any announcements, so let’s wrap up the show. Thanks, you guys, for a hundred awesome episodes. MERRICK:  Thank you, Chuck. AARON:  Yeah, thanks everyone. CHUCK:  And we’ll catch you all next week.

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