Joe Leo joins Charles Max Wood on this week's My Ruby Story. Joe is the Founder and CEO of the agile software consultancy, Def Method. He shares his journey as a developer. Joe was tutored by his uncle and learned how to code in Basic on a command line. He wanted to be in the music industry and liked math.

Joe is currently working on holistic product development and is delving into areas such as what makes a good product manager and what makes a good product design. Charles and Joe talk about difficulties in quantifying good product management skills or writing tests and other non-coding aspects that surround making a product.

Host: Charles Max Wood

Joined by Special Guest: Joe Leo

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