100 RR 100th Episode! Behind the Scenes with The Ruby Rogues

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01:21 - Mystery Guest: Peter Cooper

03:46 - How Ruby Rogues got started

06:45 - Ruby Rogues: In the Beginning

09:47 - Picks

11:23 - Ruby 2 with Peter Cooper

15:50 - Losing and Adding Rogues

16:41 - Mystery Guest: Aaron Patterson

26:17 - How the show is recorded

27:21 - Rails with Aaron Patterson

33:17 - Mystery Guest: Mandy Moore (The RubyRep)

37:15 - Podcast Production

41:56 - Picking the Intro Joke

43:27 - Episode Editing Process

48:33 - Transcripts

50:38 - Site Improvements

54:00 - Katrina on being the newest Rogue

58:43 - The Future of Ruby Rogues


Book Club

The Rails View by John Athayde and Bruce Williams: Read along with us! We will be discussing the book with John and Bruce and the episode will air on Wednesday, May 8th, 2013.

Next Week

Diversity with Ashe Dryden


PETER:   Yeah, I've just come off a month of having a sore throat so you're very lucky to get me. It's literally in the last couple of days it seems to have gone back to normal which is good. CHUCK:   Yeah. I could hear it in your newsletters. PETER:   Exactly. [Laughter][Hosting and bandwidth was provided by The Blue Box Group, check them out at BlueBox.net.] **[This podcast is sponsored by New Relic. To track and optimize your application performance, go to RubyRogues.com/NewRelic.]  **CHUCK:  Hey everybody and welcome to Episode 100 of the Ruby Rogues podcast. ALL:   Woohoo! JAMES:   Wow! CHUCK:  Yeah. We made it, somehow. This week on our panel, we have James Edward Gray. JAMES:  If I sound like a zombie today, it’s because I am. CHUCK:  Josh Susser. JOSH:  Hello from San Francisco! CHUCK:  David Brady. DAVID:   “Hello from Mount West Ruby Conf,” is what I would say if I had not skipped the first half of the first day of Mount West Ruby Conf to be here to record. CHUCK:   Katrina Owen. KATRINA:   Hello from Denver. CHUCK:   I’m Charles Max Wood from DevChat.tv, also skipping Mount West Ruby Conference. We’re going to have a series of guests on for our 100th episode. Right now, we have Peter Cooper on the line. PETER:   Good afternoon, full of Doctor Who fans. [Laughter] JAMES:   He’s lying! DAVID:   Impostor! Impostor! CHUCK:   [Laughs] DAVID:   Exterminate! JAMES:   He won't get that joke. JOSH:   So, if you're not a Doctor Who fan, are you a fan of like Upstairs, Downstairs instead? PETER:   I have stairs in my house. JOSH:   Okay. That will work. [Laughter] DAVID:   Do you ever go to a doctor? PETER:   Oh no, this isn't going to go well. Everyone thinks I go for gross TV at all. [Laughter] JAMES:   You shouldn’t have left the show in the first place. [Crosstalk] PETER:   I went on vacation and I came back. DAVID:   This is why we threw you out last time, Peter! [Laughter] CHUCK:   Alright. So, Peter’s one of the original Ruby Rogues. I don’t remember who took his place. It was Josh or Avdi. But yeah, I'm a little curious as to how things have been going for you since you left the show, all those year and a half ago or something. JAMES:   Wait, wait, wait! Let’s rephrase that question. Josh put it much better earlier. The actual question is, how has your life been affected now that you're a Ruby Rogues dropout? CHUCK:   Oh, that’s what I meant. PETER:   Well, I guess you know, we've seen lots of people that have dropped out of things and gone on to do really well. Bill Gates was obviously the prime example of that. Unfortunately it's not gone quite so well as for Bill Gates, obviously. Actually, I left at the time, I think I did about 11 or 12 shows and I left to do my Ruby Reloaded course which since then, I mean, that shows you how long ago it's been. I mean, I've run sort of six of those courses since then and so it's been quite some time. And there's been quite a few gaps between those courses. So, it's perhaps two years ago. So yeah, I've been working on the newsletter stuff. And I think I came back for an episode, somewhere around Episode 40 or so, I did a show about producing content. I was kind of like a guest Rogue but it's pretty much been more of the same since then. It’s been lots and lots of work, collating news for everyone. You know including frequent links to this show as well as I see fit. DAVID:   Oh, crap! We were basically going to do this show to try to get some of the Rogues to come back. But… [Laughter] DAVID:   Congratulations…we’re happy for you…[sigh]. CHUCK:   [Laughs] DAVID:   Actually, that’s pretty awesome, actually. CHUCK:   I remember when we were putting the initial group together. And I tweeted or emailed Peter and said, “Hey, do you want to be on the show?” And he kind of said, “Yeah. But you really should get Aaron Patterson on the show. In fact, I want you to get Aaron Patterson on the show so much that I'm willing to give up my spot for him.” And we had two spots. So, we pulled them both in. PETER:   Exactly. You know, I'm always willing to defer to whoever is best for the job and it’s one of my biggest traits, I guess. So, it seemed like a good time to duck you out and I did have a lot of stuff to do. But I definitely enjoyed it. JOSH:   Maybe you guys can talk a little bit about how the first episode came together. Because Ruby Rogues got started before I noticed it. It was a couple of episodes in before I heard about it. JAMES:   You mean, like 40? DAVID:  [Laughs] JOSH:   No. I was on Episode 9, come on! JAMES:   Okay, alright. DAVID:   That’s not even a couple in Utah. [Laughter] JAMES:   Yeah. Chuck, tell us how it started. JOSH:   Yeah. CHUCK:   I'm not really sure how James came about or came to it. But basically, I'm a big fan of the TWiT.tv shows. Leo Laporte pulls in people. They talk about technology and technology companies and stuff. And I've been podcasting since 2008. And I'd been thinking, “Gee, it would be fun to put together a show about Ruby that’s kind of like those shows.” But I never really pulled the trigger. I was just busy and I didn’t know if there was really any interest out there. And then, I saw a tweet or something from James saying, “It would be great if Ruby had a show like this.” And that’s when I got all excited about it and started contacting him. And we started discussing who should be on the show. And I started finding other people that should be on the show like Peter and Aaron and David. And yeah, we all just kind of figured it out, picked a day, and recorded an episode. And we’ve been doing it every week ever since. JAMES:   It’s funny since Chuck said which show he stole his idea from or he’s copied the idea from. I stole mine from ‘Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe’. It’s a panel discussion where they talk about articles and stuff and analyze them from a skeptical point of view and say whether or not they're likely or not, and try to get realistic explanations of them. And they call themselves the Skeptical Rogues. So, I even stole the name from that, sort of. And that was where my side of the idea came from. But yeah, I think it was I, threw a tweet out there and Chuck was like, “I've been thinking about that too.” And then, we just started talking and went on from there. CHUCK:  Well, that explains a lot. Skeptics. [Laughter] JAMES:   In the beginning, we were pretty terrible. [Laughs] DAVID:   I'm not so sure it explains anything. [Laughter] DAVID:  See, what I did there? JAMES:   Yeah. I saw that actually. We have tons of complaints in the beginning of our audio quality. It was really, really, really bad. Most of us just use -- Avdi and Chuck always had a good setup. But some of the rest of us had pretty so-so quality. DAVID:   I had a laptop. JAMES:   Lots of complaints about that. We didn’t edit the shows in the beginning. So, you just got a raw dump of the show and it was whatever, with all the uhm’s and screw ups and everything. CHUCK:   Yeah. We just spliced the music in at the beginning and then export it. JAMES:   Right. KATRINA:   So, how long did that go on? How many shows were unedited? JAMES:   That’s a good question. After a while, it’s interesting how the editing started. We started to get reviews in iTunes. And if you go back and read those in chronological order, they're pretty funny because they're like, “Horrible,” in the beginning. “This show is the worst audio quality, no editing, blah…blah…blah…” That made took a bit noticeable bump when we all get decent mics and stuff like that. And then, I knew nothing about editing podcasts. So, I read a bunch of tutorials and stuff. And I started hand editing it and that’s when we started editing. But I don’t remember when that was. CHUCK:   Yeah, I don’t either. Eventually, it wound up going to my VA at the time which was both a blessing and a curse. It was nice to not have to think about it. But at the same time, we started having issues with them being released on a regular basis. DAVID:   Yeah. JOSH:   I remember when we had like two or three in can at one point. DAVID:   We, at one point, past 30 days. They pushed one out, the VA. I said, “He’s been fired! Yehey!” We were 30 days behind. Yeah, full four weeks. KATRINA:   I think that was my episode, actually. [Chuckles] DAVID:   And then, they all got released over the course of like a week. So it was like, an episode and then two days later, another episode. And they were backdated. So that it looked like we never missed. CHUCK:   Yeah. DAVID:   And the fans didn’t notice. CHUCK:   No, they didn’t. They just tweeted a lot about it. DAVID:   Yeah, they did. CHUCK:   And I remember somebody put up a page that was like so many days or so many hours since we had released an episode. JAMES:   That was awesome! CHUCK:   It was pretty funny. KATRINA:   I think it was ROGUESPOTTING on Heroku. JAMES:   ROGUESPOTTING, yeah, that was great. But when I first started editing, people would send me complaints because I mean, I knew nothing about editing. So, I really, really started from scratch. And people would Email me complaints and stuff. You know like, “You know, you edit audio episodes and they're like 4Gigs big. I'm trying to put them on my iPod,” whatever. So I learned a lot, by the way. Actually, I got [inaudible] by the time I quit doing it. JOSH:  It was definitely an improvement. Hey, I got a question about putting the show together. Where did the idea for picks come from? CHUCK:   That’s a thing off of the Twit.tv shows. Their panelists do picks at the end of their shows. Not all of the shows but the ones where they have more than two people on there. Because there are a couple of shows where Leo sits down with like one other person. And they don’t always do picks on those. But yeah, the big ones like ‘This Week in Tech’ and I think ‘This Week in Google’ did it. ‘MacBreak Weekly’ also does it. So, yeah, they do the picks. And they're kind of handy. They also sometimes have one of the panelists do like a tip. Some Mac tip of the week or the month, or whatever. JOSH:   I know in the Changelog, they always ask their guests about open source projects that they're interested in. So, it’s always nice to get that little something different. CHUCK:   And even if it’s all tech-related, so the whole podcast is on topic from start to picks, the nice thing is you still get exposed to things that you may or may not be aware of. And so, then you can go check it out and you can improve your process. You can pick up new tools. You can start watching some TV show because these guys recommended it. I mean, whatever it is. It’s just kind of nice to both get the exposure for those things. And also, just kind of improve quality of life and see that these guys are actually human beings that like stupid shows on TV. PETER:   You said ‘guys’. JOSH:   Nicely done! [Laughter][crosstalk] JOSH:   Hey, Peter. So, last week, we did an episode where we talked about Ruby 2. And unfortunately, we did not have you on that episode. So, I'm wondering if there’s anything exciting you could tell us about Ruby 2 that we didn’t talk about last week. And if you want to take an hour to listen to that episode right now, we’ll wait. [Laughter] PETER:   That would be a struggle actually because [inaudible] the day that that episode went out. I haven't actually heard it at all. Can you just summarize the whole thing in the next 20 minutes. DAVID:   Ruby 2, go! Well actually, it’s the whole thing. CHUCK:   [Laughs] JAMES:   Yeah, I could summarize the whole thing. I basically read the transcript of your videos. So, yeah. DAVID:  [Laughs] And Josh makes the features that James and I love.  ** CHUCK:   Yeah. PETER:  Yeah, that's not going to work too well then because most of what I covered is in those videos. But I'm also doing an eBook right now that is kind of a collection of notes that goes into some more examples and things but it's more depth rather than breadth. So no, I can't think of anything that you wouldn't have seen in the videos to cover. There's been some minor bugs and things that have cropped up that people have mentioned. But it's actually been really smooth upgrade for people from what I see. Like the only real thing that I ran into with Ruby 2.0 is that I had a library that had some hard coded Regular Expressions but it was weird the way it worked, like they were in a string and they don't convert into Regular Expression and stuff. And I ran the code on Ruby 2.0 and it's like, "Oh, this is invalid UTF-8. Blah…blah…blah… The reason for that is that the default sourcing coding now in Ruby 2.0 is UTF-8. And so, if you have a string, that's a literal string, that isn't valid UTF-8, Ruby will not like that. So, if you do have that sort of thing sitting around in your code which ideally you wouldn't but I did in my library, you need to then go back in and you need to fix the problem or just do what I did and add to the top of file #encoding:US-ASCII and everything's back to normal again. So, that's one of the weird things that I bumped into, I guess, that I didn't cover anywhere yet. DAVID:   So, you have to un-escape the file back to you to US-ASCII so that when the string upgrades itself to UTF-8, it comes back. PETER:   Yeah, it doesn’t raise an exception when you even load the file. DAVID:  I'm going to go build the test project that has a US-ASCII string inside and the UTF-8 inside the US-ASCII. I'm just going to say how many turtles down I can go with it. [Laughter]PETER:   Exactly but ASCII has something that doesn't make any sense in UTF-8 because obviously most US-ASCII strings are fine in UTF-8. But if it's just got some weird stuff going on in there like my Regular Expression did, so it was looking for stuff that just wasn't a valid code point essentially, it just ran into all these troubles. So yeah, that's one of those things where they say all your code should just work from 1.9 to 2.0. That was one of the examples they didn't actually cover in the official posts that I ran into. JOSH:   Peter, are you running all of your production applications on Ruby 2 now? PETER :  I am not. What I tend to do with my production environments, I tend to just leave them as they are for as long as possible. Obviously, do the security upgrades and things like that. But if it’s something that’s running on 1.8, I’ll try and leave it at 1.8 and so on. But that means, for me, everything is pretty much running on the latest 1.93. I just haven't had the time to upgrade to 2.0 yet on all of those. But I use that primarily for my local developments. So, in theory, it should just work. JAMES:  That is so cool how Peter went on to do useful stuff and the rest of bums just take it over [inaudible] the show.DAVID:  I'm starting to think that Ruby Rogues might be a star machine but you actually have to leave it to become a star. So, I’ll have important news next week. [Laughter]CHUCK:  Alright. Well, I think we’re… [Crosstalk]DAVID:  Josh is like [whispers], “Yes…please!” [Laughter]CHUCK:   Oh, man! Looks like we’re getting pretty close to the time where we need to bring in our next mystery guest. DAVID:   Peter, it was fantastic talking to you. CHUCK:   Yeah, really. DAVID:   Good to see you again or hear you again. JAMES:   We miss you, Peter. DAVID:   We miss you. PETER:   Thank you very much. JOSH:   Say hi to Jason for us. PETER:   Oh, I will. And I guess I also have to add this, live long and prosper. CHUCK:  Yeah. [Laughter]DAVID:   Excellent! We accept that. CHUCK:  We’ll do our best. Alright. Let’s bring the next victim…or guest in. [Laughter]JAMES:   So, while Chuck does that, I actually looked up the history of what happened around the transition. It all happened almost right together. So, here's how it went. Around Episode 9, we had two Rogues missing for some reason. And we had both Avdi Grimm and Josh Susser as guests. And it worked surprisingly well. And then, shortly after that, at Episode 11, Peter retired and Josh Susser came on as a permanent Rogue. And then, shortly after that, at Episode 13, Aaron Patterson retires. And we added Avdi as Ruby Rogue. DAVID:   Speaking of Aaron Patterson, hello caller. You're on the air. The topic today is Doll X versus Thief Lords. Go! AARON:   Doll X versus…I don’t know what a Doll X is. DAVID:  Oh, my gosh! [Laughter]CHUCK:   We’re all for two. AARON:   Ah! Of course, I do. Doctor Who, classic. CHUCK:   Okay. One for two. JOSH:   Okay, that’s acceptable. AARON:   Let me tell you, what was that the player would say? I can't remember what the Doll X would say. Ah yeah, exterminate. Yes, “Exterminate!” DAVID:  I was going to feed in the line, “Delete…delete…” [Laughter]AARON:   “Exterminate! Exterminate!” I'm going to with Doll X because they're cool robots. DAVID:  Cool!   **JOSH:   Actually, they're not robots. AARON:  They're not?  ** CHUCK:   No. AARON:   They look like robots. DAVID:   And they’ve got goo in them. CHUCK:  They're blobs. DAVID:**  They're octopus-controlled robots. [Crosstalk]**DAVID: **Jedi trumps dumb-looking robots. [Laughter]AARON:  I don’t know. The only doctor I liked was, I can't remember his name. The guy with the throw, he was the best doctor. JOSH:   With the scarf on? CHUCK:  The lieutenant? AARON:  With the scarf, yeah. He was the best. The rest of them [expression].**JOSH:   Tom Baker all the way. CHUCK: **I totally want to see the doctor go after the Doll X with the sonic can opener. [Laughter]**JAMES:  Right. I was a David Tennant fan myself. CHUCK:  Yeah. JOSH:   So, Aaron? AARON:   Yeah? JOSH:   How has being a Ruby Rogues dropout affected your life? AARON:  Well, let me tell you. Since I dropped out of the Ruby Rogues, I've had a lot more time on my hands. Like, I've been able to pursue my one true interest which is basically to become a cereal entrepreneur. And now, I'm making new cereals. DAVID: **So, we’re two for two for people matching the exact same pattern of paroled felons. Okay. [Laughter]AARON:  So basically, let me tell you what I've been working on lately is like I notice a lot of people use cereal for breakfast, not as many people eat cereal for dinner and I think that’s really a place where we can disrupt the market. So, I'm working on dinner cereals basically, they're called Steak Flakes. [Laughter]**CHUCK:  Nice! DAVID:  Can I suggest a domain name? CerealR, with just an R on the end. AARON:   Aah…CerealR, yes. JOSH:   Because you can't take Cerealize.com because that’s already taken. CHUCK: **Make sure you get like all three spellings and the most common misspelling. [Laughter]AARON:  We’re also working on cereal for adults which is basically, it’s 21 and over cereal. Basically, you pour beer into the cereal. [Laughter]CHUCK:  This show is always interesting with our friend, Aaron, on the show. AARON:  So yeah, that’s what I've been working on lately. JAMES:  Aaron went on to be successful on important things and the rest of us bums just stayed here making this show. [Laughter]JOSH:   I don’t know about you but I put on a conference last year. JAMES:  Yeah, that’s true. CHUCK:   Boring! DAVID:  Josh is the impostor. [Laughter]**JAMES:   Actually, speaking of Josh and Aaron, the one huge contribution Aaron Patterson made to the show after he left is that he’s the one who got me to bring in Josh. And I knew of Josh and had read his blog a couple of times and things like that but we never really interacted in any way. Aaron was gone one time, I think, because he was attending GoGaRuCo. And he said, “You should make Josh Susser Ruby Rogue.” And that was the episode when Josh guested. I asked him if he would guest when Aaron said that. And then, after that, he became a Rogue. So, Aaron was basically how I got to know Josh. DAVID:  Awesome. AARON:  Great. JOSH:   The timing of that sounds wrong but the rest of it sounds true. Yeah, that was in June that I recorded that first episode. JAMES:   So maybe he wasn’t gone for GoGaRuCo. He’s gone for something else. Anyway, he’s the one who told me to ask you. AARON:   I don’t think I'm actually a Rogue. I don’t feel I'm a Rogue. I'm more of a mainstream guy. JOSH: **You're more of a [inaudible].AARON: Yeah. Just not -- you know, I don’t want to go Rogue. Sounds scary. [Laughter]JOSH:  I want to go Vogue. [Laughter]AARON:   Vogue? DAVID:  Strike the pose! AARON:   Ah, yeah. JAMES:  Did you guys see that DOGUE ad recently that was going around Twitter? It was great. AARON:   Oh, yeah. JOSH:   Oh, DOGUE, the dog fashion magazine? JAMES:  Yeah. It was awesome.   **JOSH:  Nice. CHUCK:   Oh, no! [Laughter] AARON:  I couldn’t stop laughing at that thing. I swear I was just seeing you staring at my laptop laughing like an idiot for 30 minutes. I'm sure people who are listening will feel like, “What did he do? What is this crazy guy doing?” CHUCK:  I think we’re going to need to get a link in the show notes for that. AARON:  Oh, I can provide that easily. JOSH:   So, Aaron, do you still listen to the show? AARON:  Do I still listen to the show? No. [Laughter]  ** JAMES:   At least, he’s honest. DAVID:  Everybody we’ve had on, “I've never heard of your show.” [Laughter]AARON:   If I say yes, you’d be like, “Okay, so what's your favorite episode?” And I’d be like, “Aaaaahhhh…” JOSH:  The DHH episode. [Laughter]AARON:   Every episode where I was on it. I actually haven't listened to DHH’s episode. I heard there was a hoopla on the old mailing list. But I am not a part of the mailing list. CHUCK:   You're not on the mailing list? We can fix that. AARON:   Oh! I would like to be on the mailing list. CHUCK:   We would like you to be on the mailing list. JOSH:   The mailing list, otherwise known as Ruby Rogues Parley list. CHUCK:   If you want to sign up, you can also go to Parley.RubyRogues.com. Not you, Aaron, we’ll get you in. JAMES:   Yeah. Don’t do that. We’ll do that. AARON:  What happens on the list? Will he stay on the list? [Laughter]JAMES:  He stays on the list, yeah. Today is discussion about CI, mostly. AARON:  CI? JAMES:   Yeah. That’s what they're talking about. It’s really good. It’s a really high signal low noise mailing list basically. AARON:  Oh, okay. I've seen a lot of people thighs, some are prettier than others. [Laughter]**KATRINA: Poor transcriptionist. [Laughter]CHUCK:  Yeah. To the transcriptionist: that didn’t make sense to any of us either. DAVID: File that joke under he who laughs last thinks slowest. And that would be me. [Laughter]  **JOSH:   By the way…[Crosstalk] AARON:   That was a really stupid joke. This is basically me every day, every day. And you know what? Ryan gets incredibly angry. [Laughter] AARON:   I'm pretty sure I'm punched at least once a day for stupid jokes. And this is like, I could tell -- if he listens to this episode, I will get punched. I know it will happen. [Laughter] CHUCK :  So, you know what we’re going to do now? We’re going to go to Ryan and we’re going to say, “We really want you to come on the show because Aaron said you should be on the show in Episode 100.” [Laughter] JAMES:   Yeah, that’s right.    ** CHUCK:   And then, he’ll go listen to it. AARON: **Hold on! Ryan, we’ve got a clip. We have to play this for you. [Laughter]**JOSH:  This is Ryan Davis’ zenspider, for our listeners. CHUCK:  Yeah, he wrote minitest, if I remember correctly. AARON:   Yes. JAMES:  Great! AARON:  And he’s my co-worker. KATRINA:  But who wrote minitest pride? AARON:  Ryan did, actually. KATRINA:  Really? AARON:   Yeah. KATRINA: **I thank him for that everyday. [Laughter]**CHUCK:  Minitest pride? AARON:  Yeah. JAMES:  So, tell us about it, Katrina. KATRINA:  If you want colors for the output of your test run when you use minitest, you can include minitest pride and you get fabulous colors. CHUCK:  Oh, okay. AARON:   Yes. It’s the best. And it shoots with Ruby too. So, you can learn that. CHUCK: **And if you want to know if the colors are in season, do you check DOGUE? [Laughter]**JAMES:  Minitest pride shoots with Ruby or just minitest? AARON:  Both. JAMES:  Oh, wow! I didn’t know pride did. Cool. DAVID:  That’s cool. CHUCK:  That makes me very proud. JAMES: **I know, right? [Laughter]**KATRINA: **Sorry, that was a snort. [Laughter]CHUCK: It’s one for the laugh about things that Aaron types in the back channel. Maybe that’s something we should talk about on the… [Laughter][crosstalk]JOSH:  I’m just like laughing at his photos that he’s using in Skype. [Laughter]AARON:  Sorry. Okay, so I said -- alright. [singing] Old MacDonald had a test, C-I-C-I-O. [Laughter]DAVID:   Awesome. CHUCK:  So, we should talk a little bit about how we record the show. So basically, we all get on Skype. We do a shared Skype call. We found that that’s kind of the best quality option out there right now. And we use the Skype Chat as well as for our back channel. So, if there are things we want to share, if there are things that need to go into the show notes, sometimes one of us, usually Katrina will type things in to clarify something that we said that is going to be hard to transcribe. DAVID:  About once every other episode, somebody will type, “Chuck, mute your microphone when you're typing.” JAMES:  [Laughs]CHUCK:  Yup. AARON: [singing] And it that test, we had a bug, C-I-C-I-O. [Laughter]J **AMES:  He was just singing the entire time we just had him muted. DAVID:  Aaron, we became a serious show after you left. We became a serious show! AARON:  I go rogue among Rogues. [Laughter] CHUCK:  Nice! Yeah. JAMES:   So Aaron, we know about your important cereal developments. Have you been doing anything boring like Rails? AARON:  Yeah, I've been working on the Rails. Yup, that’s what I've been doing. It’s really exciting. JAMES:  [Laughs] AARON:  Super exciting. JAMES:  Is that done yet? I mean, you're about done, right? AARON:   Yeah. Rails is about done. I think it’s done. I mean, you know, pretty much all software projects end, right? JAMES:   Right, right. CHUCK:   Yeah. AARON:  [Laughs] CHUCK :  It just needs another coat of paint and then you're done. AARON:  Yeah. One more coat of paint and we’re all done. Yeah, you know. I don’t know. I guess Rails 4 should come out sometime. I am currently working on a thing to speed up tests. JAMES:  Aaron, I hate to point this out. But last time you were on the show, I'm pretty sure you said, “Rails 4 will come out very soon.” AARON:  Ah, yeah, I did. CHUCK:  I seem to recall before the end of the year. I guess, it’s still before the end of the year. It’s just the next year. AARON:   No, no, no. It’s still in my slide. I got the release day in all the slides. It’s September 2012. That was the release day, yes. Obviously, it’s past that. I have no idea when it’s going to come out. We keep doing stuff and… DAVID:  Well, this episode won't go out until next week. [Laughter] JAMES:  Yeah, you got like five days. CHUCK:  Yeah. AARON:  I expect we’ll probably have another beta released at least for Rails Conf. I don’t know. CHUCK:  Who makes the final call? I mean, when do you decide when it’s ready? AARON:  DHH, basically. JOSH:  Well, you know, Aaron, if you stopped introducing security vulnerabilities into the code, the rest of the team could ship the product? AARON:  Yeah, of course. I know. JAMES:  Aaron, I don’t mean to point this out but before you were heavily involved with Rails, the security vulnerabilities were not that frequent. And now, I don’t know. [Laughter] AARON:   Yeah, it’s all me. Bugs, yeah. JOSH:  Maybe splitting your time between two core teams wasn’t the best decision to make. AARON:  Yeah. I know. Well, the thing is like I'm trying to get my EGOT. [Laughter] JOSH:  Right. JAMES:  Right. JOSH:  So, which one is which? AARON:  [Laughs] I'm not sure. I think basically I just have JRuby team left. And then, I’ll get my EGOT. I don’t know. [Laughter] AARON:  I can retire happily. JAMES:  David Brady, I can tell from the back channel, David Brady does not watch 30 Rock. JOSH:   Yeah, I know. DAVID:  It’s true. I don’t. JOSH:   Okay. We keep mentioning the back channel but we haven't gotten there yet in explaining it. JAMES:  Chuck, explain to the world. CHUCK:   Yeah. It’s just the chat portion of the Skype call. AARON:   The chat portion of the Skype call? JAMES:  Katrina doesn’t watch 30 Rock either. CHUCK:   Oh, I don’t either. JAMES :  On 30 Rock, there is a character that goes after his EGOT which is an Emmy, a Grammy, an Oscar, and a Tony. Is that what it is? AARON:  [Laughs] Yes, that necklace. JOSH:  [Laughs] Yeah. JAMES:   Yeah. Ridiculous gold pimp necklace. AARON:   [Laughs] So, I'm going to get one of those Ruby, Rails, JRuby, something. I don’t know. CHUCK:  Oh, there you go. [Laughter] JOSH:  jQuery? AARON:   Yeah, jQuery, I don’t know. DAVID:   You're going to be like the Jeffrey Combs of Star Trek. JAMES:  Or Rubinius. JOSH:  I don’t know. I think Yehuda’s going to get his EGOT before you do. AARON:   Oh, I'm sure. I think he already has it. JOSH:  [inaudible] around all the time? AARON:  No, not at all. CHUCK:  Alright. AARON:  So, what is the topic for today? What is today’s topic for the Ruby Rogues, 100th episode? JAMES:  Yeah, 100th episode. JOSH:   Secret history of the Ruby Rogues. So, what's the worst secret that you have about Chuck? [Laughter] CHUCK:  You forget. I'm paying the person who edits these shows. JOSH:   [expression] CHUCK:  And what I mean by that is ‘go ahead, Aaron’. [Laughter] DAVID:  Because she totally accepts bribes. It’s good. [Laughter] AARON:   I have no secrets. I will have to make something up. I have no idea. CHUCK:   You totally should have! Alright. JOSH:  Aaron, the trick to lying is not to tell people that you're doing it. [Laughter] AARON:  Okay.  ** DAVID:   Hang on, let me get a pen. AARON:  Here’s the problem. I am an extremely lazy person. Okay? Let me tell you. I'm extremely lazy. And I'm so lazy to a point where I can't lie because it’s too much work to remember that I did it. I have to keep lying for it to work straight. I just can't do that. DAVID:  Aaron Patterson: Honesty is the laziest policy. [Laughter]AARON:  Yes, exactly. That’s exactly what it is because if you don’t that, I’d be like, “What did I say?” I learned this lesson the hard way in high school. [Laughter]**AARON:  In dealing with my parents. DAVID: **Cue the story. [Laughter]**AARON: **These stories are not for air. I can't… [Laughter]DAVID:  I think that was a lie. AARON:  No, that is not a lie. I actually did it. [Laughter]**CHUCK:   Alright, Aaron. It’s been awesome to have you on the show. We have to bring in our next mystery guest. AARON:  Alright. Thanks for having me. Congratulations on your Episode 100. I am very proud to have been a part of the Ruby Rogues at one point. JAMES: Don’t lie. You thought we’d be cancelled by Episode 30. [Laughter]CHUCK:  Yeah, I bribed the networks, trying to get us all EGOTs. AARON:  Alright. Thank you, guys. JOSH:  Bye Aaron. AARON:   Bye. CHUCK:   Alright. Let’s bring in our next mystery guest. Hello, mystery guest. MANDY:   Hello! DAVID:   It’s our favorite guest ever! JAMES:   Yehey! It’s about time. MANDY:   How is everybody? CHUCK:   Good. JAMES:  Very good. How are you? MANDY:  Good. Just editing podcasts. CHUCK:  It sounds like such a boring job. [Crosstalk]JAMES:   We didn’t know you do that. JOSH:   Chuck, you didn’t actually introduce her. CHUCK:   That’s right. This is our, I'm going to call her the Rogues Assistant. This is Mandy Moore. MANDY:   Yup. That’s me. JOSH:   Known as @theRubyRep on Twitter. MANDY:   Yes. DAVID:   So Mandy, you have kind of the coolest Rogues-getting-started story because we were like seven months behind on our shipping schedule. And you came on, and then like your spleen exploded. CHUCK:   And she still delivered on time. DAVID:   Why did they deprive the laptop from you in the hospital? JOSH:   Tell us that story. MANDY:  It was actually my gallbladder. [Laughter]DAVID:  That’s the best clarification ever. [Laughter]MANDY:   I was totally fine one day. And my daughter was actually sent in home from school sick. And in the Pediatrician’s office, all of a sudden, I just doubled over. And I was like holding my heart and they're like, “What is wrong with you?” And then, they said, “You need to go to the hospital.” So, I was like, “Oh, great! I just had started with Chuck the week before.” And I'm like, “Okay.” So, I'm in the hospital in pain. My blood pressure was terribly, terribly high. And they started giving me the pain meds and all. I immediately get on my iPhone and started emailing all of my clients saying, “I'm in the hospital. Don’t know what's wrong.” And they figured out it was my gallbladder and they took it out the next day. And I'm like, “I need to go home.” And they're like, “You need to rest.” And I was like, “No, no. I need to go home.” So, my boyfriend came and he picked me up and took me home. And I was like, “Give me my computer.” And he had had it hidden when he came home. DAVID:  Good man. [Laughter]MANDY:   And I was like, “Give me my computer.” He’s like, “I will give it to you tomorrow. I promise. I promise I will give you the computer tomorrow.” So, I got a good night’s sleep. I woke up, and I was like, “Give it to me.” I spent, I think, 14 hours doing all three of the podcasts. DAVID:   Wow! MANDY:   Just so I could get them to the transcriptionist because, I don’t know. I'm obsessive compulsive. I like things to be out on time. DAVID:  Well, it’s because we told you if you were late, you were fired. [Laughter]CHUCK:   I don’t remember ever saying that. MANDY:   No, you didn’t. CHUCK:   I just thought it. JAMES:   We never said it. We never did. DAVID:   I think we all wrote you messages like, “It’s okay. Let the episodes be late. We’re fine! Get some rest.” MANDY:   It was all me. I put too much pressure on myself. JAMES:   It’s not like we work usually late. JOSH:  It’s like, Ruby Rogues: a matter of life and death. [Laughter]CHUCK:   So, I have to point out though that I was still engaged with Contemporary VA when I hired Mandy. And I was going to phase Contemporary VA out if she worked out. And within the first week, she got us all caught up, had solved half or more of the outstanding things I had with Contemporary VA. I mean, for me, it was a no-brainer. I'm just like, “Okay, I'm done. I'm totally done.” I still haven't gotten a full refund from them. And they basically told me to screw off. DAVID:  There's your pick for the end of the show today. [Laughter]JOSH:   Yeah. DAVID:   So, hire The RubyRep if you can, but Contemporary VA has some free openings. JOSH:   Hey Mandy, I'm curious; I was always wondering if you had like background in podcast production before you started working on the Rogues. MANDY:   Absolutely not. CHUCK:   She’d been doing Avdi’s stuff. MANDY:   I was doing Wide Teams for Avdi but Avdi showed me and taught me how to do it. So, before that, I was just a waitress. DAVID:   Wow! MANDY:  I went to College for Professional Writing with a minor in Communications. And you know, found my self a single mom. And answered the job ad for Avdi. It worked out with him. He got me started. And everything has just escalated from there, for the best. I'm happy. I'm so happy. I will never wait another table in my life. [Crosstalk]DAVID:   …darn tootin' because we won't let you. CHUCK:  That’s so true. [Laughs]JOSH:   I'm really impressed that someone who got a Communications Degree is actually using it to do some job in communications now. Is that a first time ever? MANDY:   Probably. DAVID:   That’s why we looked for a waitress. JOSH:  Yeah. [Laughs][crosstalk]MANDY: …doing this in College, I'd be like, “No, I have no idea what you're even talking about. What's podcasting?” DAVID:  So, you're into an old [inaudible] Communications school.MANDY:  No, it was kind of state. I don’t know if [inaudible] that or not.DAVID:   How fast can you telegraph Morse Code? MANDY:  [Laughs]CHUCK:   So, I have to point out that Mandy is my biggest fan because she listens to every one of my shows every week. MANDY:  I do. I am. I learn a lot though. Well, as much as I -- you guys speak Chinese half the time to me. [Laughter]MANDY:   But I especially like the Freelancers podcast because I think it applies to more than just the Ruby community. I think you can take a lot away from just the freelancing aspect of it. CHUCK:   Yeah, that’s a fun show to do too. DAVID:   So Mandy, do you do the transcription? MANDY:   No. CHUCK:   Oh no, she’s going to tell all my dirty secrets. MANDY:   No, no. I would never sleep! CHUCK:   So true. DAVID:  I was hoping you did the transcription because the question I wanted to ask the transcriptionist was, velcro PMC bronze brasscased ammunition velcro flytrap. [Laughter]JOSH:   So Mandy, aside from dealing with everything that comes out of David’s mouth, what's the most challenging part of producing the Ruby Rogues? MANDY:   The show notes, really, like kind of understanding what you guys are saying and it’s kind of hard. But like I said, I'm learning. So, it’s not too bad. CHUCK:   Well, I have to say that the show notes are usually pretty much just dead-on. JAMES:   Yeah, they're excellent. CHUCK:   I mean, I've never looked at it and said, “Man, she really missed something here.” It’s all there, the timestamps on there, really nice. MANDY:   Well, you guys do a really good job with like leading in and being like, “Okay, we’re going to shift from this topic to this topic.” So, that’s really helpful. CHUCK:   She says that because she’s only ever edited one podcast episode with Aaron Patterson on it. DAVID:  [Laughs]JAMES:   Wait till she hears what happened on today’s episode before she was on. JOSH:  [Singing] C-I-C-I-O. [Laughter]JAMES:   I really think when we were having trouble with the original VA, Avdi mentioned that he was really pleased with Mandy and stuff. And it was funny because he recommended we should use her but at the same time, he was like, “But if you steal her and I don’t have any more time from her, I’ll kill you all.” MANDY:  [Chuckles].CHUCK:   Yeah. JOSH:   And I'm very sure he was serious. CHUCK:   We’re working up to that. MANDY:  [Laughs] No, I still do work for Avdi. And I probably always will because I owe this all to him. I'm so grateful for him giving me a shot. I mean, I had no idea this would actually turn into a lucrative career for me.JAMES:   And here he is missing our 100th episode. MANDY:   I know. CHUCK:   I know. DAVID:   Yeah. MANDY:   I'm pretty mad at him for that. Avdi, I'm mad at you. JOSH:  Are you sure you booked him on the right flight? [Laughter]MANDY:   Oh, no. I met him before. We’ve hung out. I've been down to his house. DAVID:   Oh, cool. CHUCK:   Yeah. MANDY:   Yeah. DAVID:   A lot of the listeners want to know some of the sausage making. We hand you off almost two hours of recording usually, right? Because we’ve got like 20 minutes of jibber-jabber at the beginning. And then an hour’s show, and then another ten minutes of post-call wrap up. And on the last couple of episodes, somebody had said something and we laughed. And somebody will say, “That needs to be the intro joke.” But a lot of times, we don’t. So, we actually don’t pick the intro joke, right? We actually have to listen to the episode to find out what you picked. So, how do you pick the intro joke? MANDY:  I always have a sense of humor and usually… [Laughter]MANDY:  I’ll say David is usually the winner. [Laughter]DAVID:   It’s the only thing I bring to the table. That’s why I asked the question. I was fishing. I admit it. CHUCK:   Oh, man! MANDY:   Josh comes out with some good ones too but I’d have to say that David’s the winner. DAVID:   Because it’s not an intro smart quote. MANDY:   I also share his love of Archer. DAVID:   Excellent! JAMES:   Wow! Nice. CHUCK:   So, if David doesn’t inject enough lowbrow humor, then she uses Josh’s highbrow humor. MANDY:   Pretty much. JOSH:   Are you saying I have funny eyebrows? CHUCK:  [Singing] C-I-C-I-O. [Laughter]DAVID:  Since you edit this Mandy, it will make sense when you edit it. [Laughter]C **HUCK:   So, I do want to talk a little bit about the behind the scenes with this aspect of things. So, when I record, I record into this Edirol recorder by Roland. I take that and I put it onto my computer. I recorded in Wave files, it’s completely lossless which means that she gets like a 2Gig file in Dropbox every week for Ruby Rogues that she has to edit down and then export to MP3. And then, what do you do with it when you get it because I just told you to do what you do with Avdi’s because they sound good. MANDY:   Well, it’s actually one of my picks. I use Audacity. It’s a free editor and that’s what he showed me how to use it on. And that’s what I like. I just take the Wave file out of Dropbox. Drop it on to my desktop for a little bit, import it into Audacity and then, up pops all your voices on lovely blue wave lengths and stuff. I mean, I'm at the point where I know who’s talking by what your voice looks like on my screen. JAMES:   That’s awesome. DAVID:   Wow! I don’t see the code anymore. I just see blonde...redhead...brunette. [Laughter] DAVID:   That’s awesome. CHUCK:   James, you're just a wave form to her. JAMES:   [Chuckles] MANDY:   And I can actually tell when you guys are going to say, “Uhm,” or, “Ah,” because they all look the same. It’s actually kind of cool. So now, I just go through that and I do edit a lot of the ‘uhms’ and the ‘ahs’, and the long pauses and kind of may you guys sound smarter. [Laughter] CHUCK:   We need all the help we can get. JAMES:   That is a lot of work right there. MANDY:   So, it all totaled, each episode, it takes me two hours, give or take, to edit each episode. And then another hour, give or take, to do the show notes. DAVID:   That’s wild. That is so wild. It’s amazing to hear how practice you have got of it. I got to tell you you’ve focus on your craft to get good at it. I know another podcaster, I won't mention his name. But he will put together half an hour of audio. It takes him like eight hours of editing because he’s so picky about clipping out all the silences, and the uhms, and that sort of thing. MANDY:   I could be pickier but I don’t know how much, and if Chuck wants me to take eight hours for each podcast... [Laughter] DAVID:   I can't be picky because I have to go fast! [Laughter] DAVID:   That’s awesome. CHUCK:   Yeah, one thing I do want to point out is that a few months ago, and I hope it’s okay if I tell this, Mandy. But she came to me and she basically said, “So, you're paying a lot less than everybody else does,” and asked me for a raise. And she was all nervous and stuff. And as soon as I saw it, I'm like, “Oh, okay.” [Laughs] MANDY:   I'm not good. I've never managed my own business. I begged for tips before. [Laughs] So, I had no idea. I mean, I've been learning. So, it’s all [inaudible] to me. I'm just learning as I go. JOSH:   There's this podcast about freelancing. [Laughter] MANDY:   I know. That’s kind of where I got a lot of my tips because I start to Email it out of positive things that I brought to the table. CHUCK:   Well, that’s not ironic. I told her how to ask for a raise. [Laughter] CHUCK:   And guys, don’t tell her this, but I’d pay her more. [Laughter] DAVID:   Honestly Mandy, you have no idea how much leverage you had. If you went to Chuck and said, “I've already talked to the other Rogues, and you will pay me this much.” [Laughter] MANDY:   Yeah. I did. [Laughs] Chuck basically taught me how to ask for a raise. DAVID:   That’s awesome. JAMES:   That’s awesome. CHUCK:   That makes me feel good. It actually does. It makes me feel good. DAVID:   To be fair, that’s actually a vote for the freelance podcasters worth listening to. MANDY:   It is. JOSH:   Yeah. Hey Mandy, so is there something that we, as when we’re recording or whatever, could be doing to make the show better, in your opinion? MANDY:   No. I mean, I like the fact that you guys… JOSH:   That’s why I like her. MANDY:   You use the chat to enter in like any kind of links or words. Katrina is especially good at that because she used to be a transcriptionist, I hear. And so, she will just write in words and that way, I have a separate file that don’t actually go in the show notes that I give to the transcriptionist. And I'm like, “This is what they said. And this is how you spell it. So, you can get that all out of the way.” Now, using the chat log really, really helps. But other than that, no. Keep doing what you're doing. KATRINA:   Unfortunately, today’s chat log is going to be less useful. [Laughter][crosstalk] CHUCK:   She’s going to have a whole bunch of those lines where it’s like ‘laughter, laughter, laughter’. DAVID:   Yeah. CHUCK:   So, the transcriptionists are actually -- are they both in the Philippines? MANDY:   Yes. CHUCK:   I hired them off of oDesk. I hired the first one. She flaked out and then, I had Mandy find the second one, I believe. MANDY:   Yeah. And then, I was like, “Do you mind if we get a third one?” Because it’s hard, I mean, for the three podcast and now, he just added a fourth one to get them to me within a week. I get nervous. I’d say, “The podcast need to go out Wednesday. So by Tuesday, I'm like sitting here, like, “Okay. Where is it?” CHUCK:   Yeah. I have to say that that’s worked out real nicely for us. And we’re working on getting the back log or the older episodes transcribed as well. A lot of people have come to me and said, “We love the transcripts.” It’s amazing to me how much -- all the feedback we’ve gotten. DAVID:   We don’t want the transcriptionist to get a whole episode of us going, “We don’t like transcription. We don’t want us to…” [Chuckles] We love you transcriptionists. MANDY:   No, they're great. They're great. And they're super great to work with as well. They're nice. I love working with them. They're both sweethearts. CHUCK:   Yeah. I can't say enough good things. Honestly, all of the transcriptionists we’ve had have been terrific. And like I said before, it helps people find the show. But I get tweets every week from people saying, “Thank you for doing the transcripts. It makes a huge difference when I need to find something or look it up.” Or sometimes, I'm not in a position to listen and I just want to read it. MANDY:   Yeah. JAMES:   It’s really helpful when you're looking stuff up like when I'm like, “I know we were talking about this.” And I just came into them and I can start showing the page and kind of find it. MANDY:   Yeah. DAVID:  So for the transcriptionist as well, I am a big fat moron. I know you have wanted to transcribe that sentence for like a month now. So, there you go. [Laughter] KATRINA:   One of the other improvements that I saw Mandy brought to the show was that she fixed the picks page on the website. Like it was not up-to-date before Mandy was brought on. DAVID:   Yeah. JAMES:   Yes. MANDY:   Yeah, I update that the day everything comes out. CHUCK:   Yeah. It’s like she keeps on top of the details which is a problem that my old VA just never could solve. JAMES:   The guest listing over on the sides is up-to-date these days. DAVID:   So, I'm going to throw a question that’s going to come around and bite you right in the butt. But how come you don’t have the bios up? MANDY:   Because you haven't gotten them to me! [Laughter] CHUCK:   I knew that was coming. DAVID:   Take that! CHUCK:   I knew that was coming! DAVID:   I threw that out… MANDY:   I don’t have Josh’s, I don’t have yours either. [Laughter] MANDY:   And Chuck. You're the three that I'm waiting on. JAMES:   Ouch! CHUCK:   So, I have to say this is part of the… DAVID:   I have a challenge for Chuck, and Josh, and I which is to get Mandy everything we need for the bios so that by the time the listeners hear this next week, that our butt is covered. [Laughter] MANDY:   Katrina, James, and Avdi are already there. I just need the rest of you to publish the page. CHUCK:   Ooh, public shaming! Public shaming! MANDY:   [Laughs] CHUCK:   This is the other reason why having Mandy as a VA for this is so awesome. It’s because I actually feel guilty when I don’t get the podcast into Dropbox on time. And that’s what I need. I need that kind of motivation because I will forget. MANDY:   And I feel so bad for doing it. CHUCK:   Don’t feel bad. DAVID:   It’s not so much guilt so much as like if she needs something to get something done, she’ll come find you and say, “I need this to get this done.” And it’s not nagging, it’s not pushing. Don’t feel guilty at all, Mandy. CHUCK:   It’s totally what we need. And every time you do it, I'm like, “Yes! Thank you! Thank you!” DAVID:   Yeah, you’ve been really sweet about it every single time. And it’s been like, “Oh, damn! I need to get that to her right away.” MANDY:   Yeah. JOSH:   Mandy, next time you need something from me, just kick my butt. MANDY:   [Laughs] I would love to come out to California, Josh. I would love it. I need a vacation so bad. DAVID:   You should write a talk, Mandy, about preparing podcasts and submit them to Ruby Conferences. KATRINA:   Yeah, you should. DAVID:   I honestly think it would get accepted, yes. KATRINA:   I think so too. MANDY:   I'm not a pro by any means. But I will do it. DAVID:   Yes, you are! You are head and shoulders over everybody around you. Impostor syndrome! Spot the [inaudible]. Impostor syndrome! CHUCK:   [Laughs] The other thing is I'm actually in pretty tight with the guy that organizes the podcast track for New Media Expo and you should come speak there as well. MANDY:   Yeah. If it’s in Vegas, count me in. [Laughter] MANDY:   I've been there once and I am just dying to go back. CHUCK:   Yeah. It’s in Vegas. And it’s a fun trip. And you could just hang out with the other podcast geeks that I hang out with. MANDY:   Yeah, like I said, I just kind of do it. I don’t know a lot of the controls. I just play it by ear and hope it sounds good. CHUCK:   Nice. JAMES:   So, we’ve talked about Peter’s story, Aaron’s story, Mandy’s story. What about Katrina? She was the most recently added Rogue. Katrina always [inaudible] recently. KATRINA:   It’s ridiculous. It truly is. JAMES:   [Laughs] CHUCK:   She says it’s ridiculous. She’s talking about putting up with us every week. KATRINA:   So, it’s like suddenly people know my name. Like, I went to the LA Ruby Conf and some guy came up to me and was like, “Can I take a picture with you?” [Laughs] And I was like, “Are you kidding me? Yes, of course. But do you really want to do that?” And the same thing happened at one of the local meet ups here. People came up, knew my name, had listened to the show, had opinions about what shows were good, what shows were not. And one of the guys was like, “No, the Topaz. That was ridiculous. Talk about Ruby, not Python.” JAMES:   [Laughs] KATRINA:   It’s really, really strange. Like, it’s kind of just accidental that I'm here anyway and it’s all a very happy accident for me but I don’t deserve to be famous for it. DAVID:   Spot the other woman with impostor syndrome! [Laughter] KATRINA:   What? There are women in the room? [Laughter] CHUCK:   Oh, man! It’s funny, I keep getting asked about how you got added to the show. And some people are like, “So, did you add her because she was a woman?” And I'm always like, “No, we’ve been talking about it since she guested on the show.” It just got to the point where we were like, “Okay. We really want her on the show.” To the point where at least two Rogues offered to give up their seats to get you on the show. And at that point, I was kind of sick about it because I'm like, “I really want her on the show. But everybody kind of brings something different to the show.” And that’s when we kind of came up with the idea of rotating in and out. And it was totally worth it to bring you in. DAVID:   Which has worked really well. JOSH:   Everybody needs a week off now and then, anyway. JAMES:   Yeah. I actually am so glad we did it. So Katrina, you may not think you belong here but we do. KATRINA:   I'm the voice of the beginner. It’s always useful to have the voice of the beginner. CHUCK:   You say that but a lot of times, you bring some insight that I'm just sitting there and going, “I will never come up with that in a million years.” DAVID:   Yeah. JOSH:   That’s why it’s not just one person on the show. MANDY:   And I can verify that they were talking about this in the back channel about bringing you on the show way before any controversy started with the whole… DAVID:   [inaudible] MANDY:   Yes, yes. JOSH:   You said the word! MANDY:   I can verify it. CHUCK:   Yeah. I mean, you were on the show in May of last year, I think, as a guest. And yeah, we’ve been talking about it ever since. KATRINA:   It couldn’t have been May. CHUCK:   Oh, really? KATRINA:   Because I did my first public talk in June. CHUCK:   Oh! Well, then it was whenever it was. JOSH:   Of course, yes. [Laughter] CHUCK:   I didn’t have a good answer. [Laughter] KATRINA:   Seven people knew my name. JOSH:   You have a keen grasp of Avdi as Chuck. CHUCK:   Oh, yeah. It’s a blessing. JOSH:   Actually, Katrina’s episode was Episode 69. DAVID:   September 5th. JOSH:   September 5th. DAVID:   Josh and I are surfing the website at the same time. [Laughter] CHUCK:   Yeah. You go to the Episode Guide. You do a search on the page for Katrina and then you click on the link. JOSH:   Yes. The Episode Guide, something else we have to thank Mandy for. JAMES:   Yes. MANDY:   I think Katrina’s episode was the first episode I edited. JOSH:   Cool. MANDY:   Yes. DAVID:   Very cool. CHUCK:   Which is funny because we recorded it September 5th and Katrina was, or I hired Mandy at the beginning or middle of October. So, that’s kind of how far behind we were when we brought her in. DAVID:   Yeah. Seriously Mandy, you have been the best thing to happen. You are the best Rogue, honestly. KATRINA:   Totally. MANDY:   Thank you. JOSH:   Kind of like Alfred the Butler. He was like the most important member of Batman’s team. DAVID:   Yes. MANDY:   Well, I don’t know if you guys watch Chelsea Lately, but I feel like your Chuy Bravo half the time. CHUCK:   I have no idea what you just said. JAMES:   Now, I'm going to have to go watch it. Geez! DAVID:   Now I know how Aaron felt or how Peter felt when we made the Doctor Who reference. Wow! MANDY:   [Laughs] KATRINA:   And the 30 Rock reference. DAVID:   Yeah. KATRINA:   And the Star Wars reference. [Laughter] JOSH:   Okay. Is it picks time yet? CHUCK:   Yes. I was going to say. I think we’ve pretty well exhausted this. JAMES:   I've got one more thing before we go to picks. Chuck mentioned one thing we’re kind of thinking about doing in the future with the going back and transcribing other episodes. Are there other things we’re thinking about doing in the future? KATRINA:   Only secret things. I don’t think we should talk about them. JAMES:   Ooooh. MANDY:   I’ll get the bios up. CHUCK:   Yeah. I think we’ve talked about some of these things off and on. But I don’t know if we want to talk about them here, things like t-shirts. If you know a good t-shirt designer, I'm having a heck of a time finding one. JAMES:  And that’s been a long standing something we’d like. CHUCK:   Yes. And then, do we want to talk about Ruby Best Practice Patterns? Or do we want to hold off? JOSH:   We’ve mentioned it before. And yeah, we can just say that we’re actually taking the idea of the project seriously and talking to people who publish books and make plans. CHUCK:   Yeah. We’re making plans to get together and actually kick it off. JOSH:   Yeah. So, if all goes well, there will be a Ruby Best Practice Patterns Book maybe next year. JAMES:   Woohoo! CHUCK:   Yehey! We’ll be famous! DAVID:   I don’t want to violate our operational security. Do we want to tell people that there's a point in time when all of us will be together at the same place? JOSH:   No. DAVID:   Okay. [Laughter] JAMES:   Are we afraid of bombs? [Laughter] JAMES:   It’s already public knowledge. It’s been announced. You can say it. Come on. CHUCK:   We will all be at LoneStarRuby Conference. JAMES:   That’s right. So, come down and see us. CHUCK:   Alright. Let’s get to the picks. We’re an hour in at this point. We chit-chatted for about 15 minutes. JOSH:   It’s okay. Mandy will just get rid of all of David’s jokes and we’ll come in under an hour. [Crosstalk] CHUCK:   We’ll come in under 45 minutes. [Laughter] CHUCK:   Oh, no! DAVID:   It’s not self-deprecating when you do it to me, Chuck. [Laughter] DAVID:   Doesn’t mean it isn't true. CHUCK:   David, I've known you long enough to say, “David, come in under half hour.” [Laughter] CHUCK:   Alright. So, let’s get into the picks. DAVID:   I have no picks. So, I'm just going to step up right now and say I forfeit. Who else wants to go? KATRINA:   I forfeit too. CHUCK:   Alright, Josh. JOSH:   Okay. You're going to me stand down because these guys aren’t actually making picks. I'm going to pick my favorite episode of Ruby Rogues. That’s my pick this week. And I'm picking the Episode 23 with Kent Beck where we discussed Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns. CHUCK:   Oh, that was a good one. JAMES:   Katrina, David, what were your favorite episodes? DAVID:   Go first, Katrina. KATRINA:   Sandi Metz’ Book Club Book. DAVID:   [expression] I was going to pick that one. Alright, Episode 49, Agile Communication with Angela Harms. KATRINA:   That was my second pick. JAMES:   That was a great one. JOSH:   James, how about you? JAMES:   So, my favorite episode, I probably would pick Katrina’s episode but I got my wish when we made Katrina Rogues. So, if I had to pick a different episode, I think 47, Coding Disciplines with Dan Kubb. That was a really good episode. DAVID:   That was a really good one. CHUCK:   That’s the one I was going to pick. DAVID:   That’s one of the episodes that really changed my behavior because I started going often designing insane code experiments and trying them. JAMES:   Me too. I do exactly the same thing. I try things for a while and keep track of them. And yeah, all because of that episode. DAVID:   Yeah. JOSH:   Who’s left? CHUCK:   Me. I think one of my favorite ones, and this is an old one too. It was Episode 20, Object Oriented Programming in Rails with Jim Weirich. And that really bet my brain around. Okay, I don’t just have to follow the prescriptions in the Rails Guides but I can actually think about the stuff in terms of object oriented programming and Ruby and some of the power that’s there. JAMES:   It’s a lot of great work. CHUCK:   But I was so going to pick the Dan Kubb one. JOSH:   [Chuckles] Is that like ordering the same thing when you go out to dinner with somebody, you just don’t want to do it? JAMES:   Yeah, you can't do that. CHUCK:   That’s only faux pas with my wife because there's no point in taking food off of her plate. [Laughter] JOSH:   So, it’s a defensive maneuver. CHUCK:   That’s right. “Well, I wanted to try that but since you're ordering them, I'm going to try this too.” JAMES:   Alright. Mandy, you’ve never given us your picks before. So, here’s your chance. MANDY:   Okay. Well, like I said, I wouldn’t be where I am right now if I didn’t have the Audacity. And then one of my favorite apps on my phone is an app called Readability. And a lot of times, if I'm doing stuff to the clients, I come across these awesome articles. But of course, I'm billing them and I'm not going to bill them to read for pleasure. So, Readability is a really, really awesome in browser plug-in that you can just click on a button and it will save it and later before bed, I could just access it on my phone and read the article. Stuff’s pretty cool too. And then, the last pick I have is when I'm doing podcast editing some nights and I've had a stressful day with a three and a half year old, this is a very, very awesome job because I have to give a shot out to my favorite box wine Franzia. I can have a glass, edit my podcast, relax, put my feet up on the couch. And it’s a wonderful way to work. [Laughter] DAVID:   Have you seen the wine glass that has the three lines on it? Like there's a line really low that says ‘long day’. And then, halfway up, it’s like ‘long day and the kids have been hell’. And then all up at the top, it says ‘I don’t want to talk about it’. MANDY:   [Laughs] I need that! DAVID:   [Laughs] MANDY:   Oh, great. JAMES:   Mandy, do you listen to the picks of all the shows and sometimes, you go check them out? MANDY:   Of course, I have to edit them. And yeah, I do. I do pick listen. I got Readability actually from Merrick Christensen on the JavaScript Jabber Show. So, I found that because of him. JAMES:   That’s cool. JOSH:   And Mandy, do you have a favorite episode? MANDY:   I have and this is the one since before I started editing them. But I think… JOSH:   Oh, they were kind of crap. CHUCK:   [Laughs] MANDY:   Well, I think the funniest one you’ve done since I've been editing has been the Nuby Episode. That was a really fun episode to edit. CHUCK:   That was a good episode. I was actually a little bit worried about that one because I just didn’t know. But those guys were so fun to talk to. MANDY:   And it was so cool that they all agreed at the time that I said, “You're going to be on the show.” They showed up. [Laughter] CHUCK:   Yeah. JAMES:   That was Josh’s brainchild. It was a great idea. JOSH:   Yeah. It all worked out pretty well. Cool. I've got somebody mention that this is their favorite. So, what else? What now? CHUCK:   So, what now? Now, we’ll do another 100 episodes. JAMES:   Now, 101. DAVID:   More. JAMES:   It first started night and straight on till morning. DAVID:   The best part about this podcast is that Fox can't cancel us. [Laughter] MANDY:   But I can! [Laughter] CHUCK:   [expression] Oh, man! JAMES:   That’s too true. CHUCK:   I know. Seriously, if you decided to cancel us, that would be like a major, major hiccup. MANDY:   I would never do that. CHUCK:   I know. JOSH:   I'm just imagining one week, people download the podcast and it’s like, Mandy has put on her super villain garb and it’s saying, “I have taken over all of your global communications.” [Laughter] JOSH:   “You must give me $1 billion.” DAVID:   [expression] “$1 billion.” [Laughter] DAVID:   Mandy, do you own a cat? MANDY:   Oh God, David. I own four. [Laughter] DAVID:   Excellent. You either have to get rid of three to become a super villain or get three more to become a crazy Cat Lady. MANDY:   I've had them when they got hit by a car. I felt so bad. I couldn’t choose. I’ve kept them all. DAVID:   Oh, no. That’s how we got our two cats. They were the last two in the litter and Liz was like, “Oh, I want a cat but they're both so cute.” And I'm like, “Well, we could get them both.” MANDY:   [Chuckles] JAMES:   That’s how we got David Brady. DAVID:   Yup. [Laughter] CHUCK:   Yeah. We scratched him behind the ears, and he never left. DAVID:   Yeah… JAMES:   But thanks everybody! CHUCK:   Yeah. Thanks. And really, the other thing that we didn’t talk about is just the listeners. I mean, we have some terrific listeners. And they’ve really supported us. It’s fun to talk to them at the conferences. I mean, you people listening to this show, you're really what made this show great. And just all the support, all the community support has just been tremendous. DAVID:   Feedbacks have been fantastic. And we really do take it to heart. CHUCK:   Yeah. Sometimes we hold back some of the things that we want to say because we know that people are -- we know what people want to hear. JOSH:   Yeah, and we pay attention. It’s like, we got better microphones. We got a muzzle for David. DAVID:   That’s truer than you think because we currently have two one star reviews. And one of them is complaining I think about James’s voice because he sounds like he’s trying to come off like a real nerd. And they think it’s fake. And no, James is a genuine nerd. JAMES:   [Laughs] DAVID:   The other one start review says great podcast but David Brady has to go. And it gives a list of -- I don’t actually have a tape to my monitor but I did for a while. And it was a list of things, ‘don’t do this on the show anymore’. JOSH:   And it’s amazing the muzzle just fixed all that stuff. DAVID:   Yeah, yeah. CHUCK:   [Chuckles] DAVID:   So, we really do listen to your feedback. CHUCK:   Yeah. Alright. Well, we need to wrap this up. I actually need to drive up to Salt Lake City. DAVID:   Oh, yes. Same here. JOSH:   Yeah, go have a conference. MANDY:   Don’t forget to drop the podcast! [Laughter] CHUCK:   I got a verbal reminder this time. You know, sometimes, I actually get the show recorded. And then, I’ll plug in the [inaudible] recorder so I can copy it over. And then, something will distract me. DAVID:   I'm going to steal Chuck’s phone. And I'm going to program Mandy’s ringtone to be ‘Don’t forget to drop the podcast!' [Laughter] JAMES:   Awesome. CHUCK:   Alright.  But thanks everybody. We’ll catch you all next week.

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